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Suggestions on Engine Rebuild Parts
Hi all!
I'm getting what sounds like bad piston slap or rod knock from my 137k mile F20C. Compression is showing Cyl1: 205 Cyl2: 250 Cyl3: 252 Cyl4: 250. It sucks, but I'm staying optimistic. It's time for a fresh rebuild. I would really like an engine that feels like new with a little more oomph after owning the S for 8+ years. Unfortunately purchasing all new OEM parts (except for block and cylinder head bodies) is out of my budget and I would rather not buy a used engine with potential problems shortly down the road. I have a spare F20 block that I got for $150 that I plan to build off of since my current F20 is still running and my DD. It had a spun bearing on Cyl2 is what I was told. sleeves seem to be in good enough shape to bore/hone for OE oversize pistons. I have been doing research and trying to figure out the essentials to replace while I've got it apart. If you see anything that you don't think is necessary or something I overlooked I would appreciate any feedback I can get. I've already got a good cylinder head with AP2 retainers, AP1 cams, and AP1 valvetrain. Budget: $2500 Goal: OEM+ (OE oversized pistons; might add CCW cams in the near future for more torque down low) Here is a list of the parts I currently have in my cart and below that are the engine block parts that I have in my garage. Do any of you have suggestions for other parts to replace? I've also got a Billman TCT on the way and I'm considering doing a new timing chain (and possibly a new oil pump chain too). Would you all recommend that or are the OE chains pretty bulletproof? Part Description Price Qty. Subtotal https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...89954951BEC05D Part No.: 13212-PCX-013 Bearing B, Connecting Rod (Black) (Daido) [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT]Remove$12.05 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $96.40 https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...BBC91049DA15DC Part No.: 13321-PCX-003 Bearing A, Main (Blue) (Daido) [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT] Replaced by: 13321-PCX-013Remove$10.03 $100.30 https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...9D0F08ED542213 Part No.: 06111-PCX-020 Gasket Kit, Cylinder Block [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT]Remove$33.33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $33.33 https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...05A1AB8E2FFFB6 Part No.: 12251-PCX-004 Gasket, Cylinder Head (Nippon Leakless)Remove$86.71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $86.71 https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...4532766CCA4B41 Part No.: 17105-PCX-004 Gasket, In. Manifold [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT]Remove$16.74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $16.74https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...9BBB0F1F05ADD3 Part No.: 15280-PCX-010 Body, Oil Jet [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT]Remove$13.53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $54.12 https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...CB9F635E75EEDB Part No.: 13021-PCX-305 Ring Set (OS 0.25) [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT]Remove$46.34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $185.36 https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...91D492F1FA99C1 Part No.: 13060-PCX-000 Piston Pin Set [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT]Remove$11.15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $44.60 https://www.hondapartsnow.com/resour...CF4F4401068054 Part No.: 13030-PCX-506 Piston Set (OS 0.25) [S2000 | 2002 | 2 Door S2000 | KA 6MT]Remove$215.42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10+ $861.68 Order Subtotal: $1,479.24 https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...44e84910c0.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...5688abb798.jpg |
Good luck finding O.S. oem pistons.
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Good luck finding O.S. oem pistons. |
From everything I have read on these pages I would not touch that rebuild with a 10 foot pole.
My impression is that the risk of problems from a used engine is tiny compared to the very large risk of problems from a rebuilt F20 bottom end. I'd think long and hard before attempting a rebuild on one of these engines. |
Do the crank journals show signs of spun bearing(s)? How are the cylinder walls looking?
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Originally Posted by fatjoe10
(Post 24565598)
Do the crank journals show signs of spun bearing(s)? How are the cylinder walls looking?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...e67e088453.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...baa4c9b66c.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...720091959a.jpg cylinder#1 ^ https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...14b9a5a714.jpg cylinder#2 ^ https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...a2c26873e7.jpg cylinder#3 ^ https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...a9f75ff22a.jpg cylinder #1 ^ https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.s2k...2412c68f7b.jpg cylinder #4 ^ |
Originally Posted by rpg51
(Post 24565581)
From everything I have read on these pages I would not touch that rebuild with a 10 foot pole.
My impression is that the risk of problems from a used engine is tiny compared to the very large risk of problems from a rebuilt F20 bottom end. I'd think long and hard before attempting a rebuild on one of these engines. I'm not saying you're wrong and this is going to be easy. Not at all lol. I know it's going to be hard, but a valuable experience nonetheless. |
You can't just take a good crank from another engine, order some bearings, and install them.
Each of these motors was hand built. They would measure that crank, and that block, then select from several possible bearing sizes to fit that combo. If you are ising the original crank, original block, and not doing any matching of bearing surfaces, you can replace bearings with the same sizes factory used. Otherwise you have to remeasure and choose correct bearings for the new combo. Perhaps the easiest, most reliable way to do that is order all the sizes, and use plastigauge. Try one bearing size, torque down with plastigauge. Measure results. Remove bearings, try a different size, redo plastigauge. Then figure out which bearing size is best for that spot. Then repeat the above for each and every rod bearing and main bearing. That is a lot of time invested. Its same with piston sizes. They chose pistons for that block, that bore. If you bring this to the best machine shop in town, that does all the real high performance machine work, its all but certain to be a total failure. The most important thing for you to do right now is find a shop that can actually do this work. If you ask them, they will all say no problem. Point to how many successful Honda rebuilds they've done. Race motors, etc. Unless they have proven success on F20, F22, walk, no run away... Let me make this clear. DO NOT PROCEED FURTHER UNTIL YOU HAVE A SHOP THAT IS CAPABLE OF DOING THIS WORK!!! The shop must understand things like how much material can safely be milled from head without messing up chain geometry. How to work with frm coated cylinder walls. How to hone them. How to bore them. How much you can bore them. How to work with F motor piston sizes and bearing sizes. There have been very few successful rebuilds of these motors. Most of those had cast iron cylinder liners pressed in to be used in forced induction motors (lots of power, but not expected to go 300k+ miles like a stock S can.) There have been plenty of unsuccessful rebuild attempts. There are no easy answers here unfortunately. |
I would suggest that you pick an iron block engine to rebuild. A chevy or a ford. Something like that. It will be fun and you can do it successfully, This is a particularly difficult engine to rebuild, if not impossible for all but the most skilled.
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You need to get that block and crank inspected before you proceed any further. There have been very few OS rebuilds that have been successful, mainly due to the machine shop not knowing how to handle and hone an FRM lined block. I’ve had an engine block that looked ok but it was so out of round going OS wouldn’t fix it. Funny thing was it held compression but drank oil. I’m talking a litre a minute. matching the crank to the block is possible with the colour coded bearings from the manual but that only gets you in the ballpark. Same goes for the rod bearings. a combination of plastigage and a dial bore gauge, and micrometer for the journals will finish that off and give the builder confidence that it will be successful. So you have to add these tools to your costs as well. its difficult, but not impossible and it must be checked, triple checked, quadruple checked. |
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