Jim Bravo

Hey All,

I have an '03 S2000 and recently swapped the intake valve retainers for AP2 parts. No engine noises/issues prior to this, it was just a preventative thing. The engine developed a ticking noise immediately after. Until today, I was thinking I've just been no good at setting the valve lash properly. I adjusted them today for the 5th time, and the ticking is still present(and probably as bad as ever). I'm beginning to believe something may have gone wrong during the install, because the noise seems to stay around whether I set the valves tight or loose.

The car still starts great, idles great, and drives fine.

Here's a video I took of the noise after the most recent valve adjustment. The noise is definitely more audible today than it has been.


Anyone have a clue about what my next step should be?

Thanks,

rpg51

Could you use a tube to narrow down the location of the source? Is it maybe injector noise?
This is yet another example of why I have resisted the temptation to replace those retainers where there are no signs of cracking.
I think your engine sounds pretty darn good.

Jim Bravo

I'll have to try it with a tube. I used a stethoscope, but EVERYTHING sounded like it was rattling with that.

I was thinking about unplugging each injector while it's running, but I need a day to decompress after all of these valve jobs.
It does otherwise seem fine, and runs great. The noise is louder than it has been after today's valve adjustment, so I'd guess the lash has at least some relation to the noise.
My original retainers are still in good shape. Even after 106k miles and having a supercharger and turbo in it's previously life.

Is there a chance one of the valves was bent during the retainer swap? I didn't pressurize the cylinders, or use rope to keep the valve from dropping. I just set each cylinder to TDC. A valve would occasionally dropped down, but I didn't have an issue pulling it back up.

Soviet

Definitely sounds related to the valves. Reminds me of when I accidentally lost a valve adjustment lock nut, presumably this meant that a single valve was super loose.

rpg51

Soviet - I presume that when you replaced the nut and set the valve gap properly the tapping was eliminated?

OP - what are the gaps that you set? When you followed up and checked them were all the gaps holding, or did you have to reset any? If you had to reset any, which ones? Were they loose? Or tight?

Did you replace the retainers AND the collets with ap2 parts?

If it were me, I would get a cardboard tube or a pvc pipe of similar diameter, cover one ear and use the tube placed around the other ear to listen, and try to narrow down the source of the ticking. Also, I would use a dental mirror to examine the retainers and collets carefully to be sure the collets are all installed correctly and sitting in the right place with respect to the retainers and the tops of the valves. If they all look fine and the answer does not reveal itself on that inspection then at that point I would be driving, or trailering my car down to Long Island to see an expert named Billman. The only other thing I suppose I might do first is a compression test, and a leak down test.

Soviet

yep. Went on to complete many track days

rpg51

I agree the thing to do is a leak down. It certainly can't do any harm and its cheap. Might give you the answer.

I have been tempted to update the retainers on my ap1 from time to time. Instead, I have done a careful inspection and determined there is no evidence of cracking. If the engine is mechanically over-revd in the future, which is very unlikely to happen, I'll inspect again. I know there is disagreement on this, and everyone has to make their own decision, but unless inspection reveals evidence of cracking, I'm leaving the original retainers in place.

Jim Bravo

I used the AP2 Intake retainers and keepers. I bought them from this eBay auction: AP2 Retainer Upgrade.

I bought a new feeler gauge set(mine was missing a .009" and .011 and had some wear) and set the intake/exhaust to the those gaps.

I'm planning on doing a compression and leak down test in the next few days. I'll probably try a cardboard tube to narrow it down to a specific area. It seems like it's from either cylinder 3 or 4. When cold, the ticking is nearly inaudible. When I take it for a spin around the block, the ticking is VERY noticeable. Not nearly a rattling or knocking, but a very audible tick.

I'd love to take the car to Billman, it's just not an option for me right now. If the leakdown and compressor tests turn out ok, I may pull the retainers back off and put the AP1 stuff back on.

I didn't support the valve with anything, unfortunately. I set the piston to TDC. I tried to make sure the valve spring tool didn't compress the retainer onto the valve(and into the piston) when the valve didn't immediately slide up through the retainer.

I did end up pulling cams and rocker assembly back out to inspect everything. I disassembled the rockers and made sure they were all intact and in good shape. I inspected the retainers and keepers, and also put a straight edge across the retainers and across the valve stem tips. I used a flashlight, but couldn't detect a noticeable gap between any of the valves and straight edge.

Here's an updated video after the disassembly/reassembly and readjusting the valve lash.


Thanks for the input so far everyone. I'm kinda leaning towards a retainer/keeper issue, or a bent valve at this point. I'll update after the leakdown/compression test.

Juniorx

Have you had a chance to try anything else yet? Curious to see if it's been resolved yet or what else you've tried?

Jim Bravo

I haven't figured the issue out yet, but I'm still working on it.

I did a compression test earlier today. Cyl. #2 average was the lowest at 222 psi. The others were around 230 psi. I don't think that tells me anything. I'd assume a bent valve would drop the compression in a slightly more significant way.


I also tried the cardboard tube trick, which didn't really lead me anywhere. The injectors seemed noisiest, but the sound never went away after unplugging individual injectors while running.

I ended up pulling the valvetrain back out, and decided to pull the intake retainers off. After inspecting all components again, I'm still stumped; everything looks great, no issues found with the retainer install, no parts missing, etc. There are a couple of valve seals that could use replacing. That's it.

I'm at a standstill right now. I could put it back together with AP1 retainers and see what happens. I'm also thinking I may be better off pulling the head off and checking the valves.

TLDR;

• Ticking noise after ap2 retainer install
• Valve lash set properly multiple times with no noise change.
• Compression seems within spec
• Valvetrain pulled back apart and inspected. All seems in good shape, including retainers.
• Considering pulling head to check for possible bent valves.

Any further guidance before I start removing the head would be appreciated.

Thanks!