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Ticking noise after AP2 retainer install

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Ticking noise after AP2 retainer install

 
Old 05-29-2019, 02:02 PM
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Default Ticking noise after AP2 retainer install

Hey All,

I have an '03 S2000 and recently swapped the intake valve retainers for AP2 parts. No engine noises/issues prior to this, it was just a preventative thing. The engine developed a ticking noise immediately after. Until today, I was thinking I've just been no good at setting the valve lash properly. I adjusted them today for the 5th time, and the ticking is still present(and probably as bad as ever). I'm beginning to believe something may have gone wrong during the install, because the noise seems to stay around whether I set the valves tight or loose.

The car still starts great, idles great, and drives fine.

Here's a video I took of the noise after the most recent valve adjustment. The noise is definitely more audible today than it has been.


Anyone have a clue about what my next step should be?

Thanks,
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Old 05-29-2019, 05:10 PM
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Could you use a tube to narrow down the location of the source? Is it maybe injector noise?
This is yet another example of why I have resisted the temptation to replace those retainers where there are no signs of cracking.
I think your engine sounds pretty darn good.
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Old 05-29-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rpg51 View Post
Could you use a tube to narrow down the location of the source? Is it maybe injector noise?
This is yet another example of why I have resisted the temptation to replace those retainers where there are no signs of cracking.
I think your engine sounds pretty darn good.
I'll have to try it with a tube. I used a stethoscope, but EVERYTHING sounded like it was rattling with that.

I was thinking about unplugging each injector while it's running, but I need a day to decompress after all of these valve jobs.
It does otherwise seem fine, and runs great. The noise is louder than it has been after today's valve adjustment, so I'd guess the lash has at least some relation to the noise.
My original retainers are still in good shape. Even after 106k miles and having a supercharger and turbo in it's previously life.

Is there a chance one of the valves was bent during the retainer swap? I didn't pressurize the cylinders, or use rope to keep the valve from dropping. I just set each cylinder to TDC. A valve would occasionally dropped down, but I didn't have an issue pulling it back up.
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:24 PM
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Definitely sounds related to the valves. Reminds me of when I accidentally lost a valve adjustment lock nut, presumably this meant that a single valve was super loose.

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Old 06-02-2019, 02:31 AM
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Soviet - I presume that when you replaced the nut and set the valve gap properly the tapping was eliminated?

OP - what are the gaps that you set? When you followed up and checked them were all the gaps holding, or did you have to reset any? If you had to reset any, which ones? Were they loose? Or tight?

Did you replace the retainers AND the collets with ap2 parts?

If it were me, I would get a cardboard tube or a pvc pipe of similar diameter, cover one ear and use the tube placed around the other ear to listen, and try to narrow down the source of the ticking. Also, I would use a dental mirror to examine the retainers and collets carefully to be sure the collets are all installed correctly and sitting in the right place with respect to the retainers and the tops of the valves. If they all look fine and the answer does not reveal itself on that inspection then at that point I would be driving, or trailering my car down to Long Island to see an expert named Billman. The only other thing I suppose I might do first is a compression test, and a leak down test.
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rpg51 View Post
Soviet - I presume that when you replaced the nut and set the valve gap properly the tapping was eliminated?
yep. Went on to complete many track days
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bravo View Post
Is there a chance one of the valves was bent during the retainer swap? I didn't pressurize the cylinders, or use rope to keep the valve from dropping. I just set each cylinder to TDC. A valve would occasionally dropped down, but I didn't have an issue pulling it back up.
When you compressed the springs, did you support the underside of the valve in any way, or just use the top of the piston? The relative angle of the valves to the piston could certainly cause a bent valve using this technique.




Perhaps a leakdown test could rule out a bent valve.
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Old 06-04-2019, 01:19 AM
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I agree the thing to do is a leak down. It certainly can't do any harm and its cheap. Might give you the answer.

I have been tempted to update the retainers on my ap1 from time to time. Instead, I have done a careful inspection and determined there is no evidence of cracking. If the engine is mechanically over-revd in the future, which is very unlikely to happen, I'll inspect again. I know there is disagreement on this, and everyone has to make their own decision, but unless inspection reveals evidence of cracking, I'm leaving the original retainers in place.

Last edited by rpg51; 06-04-2019 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rpg51 View Post
OP - what are the gaps that you set? When you followed up and checked them were all the gaps holding, or did you have to reset any? If you had to reset any, which ones? Were they loose? Or tight?

Did you replace the retainers AND the collets with ap2 parts?
I used the AP2 Intake retainers and keepers. I bought them from this eBay auction: AP2 Retainer Upgrade.

I bought a new feeler gauge set(mine was missing a .009" and .011 and had some wear) and set the intake/exhaust to the those gaps.

If it were me, I would get a cardboard tube or a pvc pipe of similar diameter, cover one ear and use the tube placed around the other ear to listen, and try to narrow down the source of the ticking. Also, I would use a dental mirror to examine the retainers and collets carefully to be sure the collets are all installed correctly and sitting in the right place with respect to the retainers and the tops of the valves. If they all look fine and the answer does not reveal itself on that inspection then at that point I would be driving, or trailering my car down to Long Island to see an expert named Billman. The only other thing I suppose I might do first is a compression test, and a leak down test.
I'm planning on doing a compression and leak down test in the next few days. I'll probably try a cardboard tube to narrow it down to a specific area. It seems like it's from either cylinder 3 or 4. When cold, the ticking is nearly inaudible. When I take it for a spin around the block, the ticking is VERY noticeable. Not nearly a rattling or knocking, but a very audible tick.

I'd love to take the car to Billman, it's just not an option for me right now. If the leakdown and compressor tests turn out ok, I may pull the retainers back off and put the AP1 stuff back on.

Originally Posted by BrewDay09 View Post
When you compressed the springs, did you support the underside of the valve in any way, or just use the top of the piston? The relative angle of the valves to the piston could certainly cause a bent valve using this technique.
I didn't support the valve with anything, unfortunately. I set the piston to TDC. I tried to make sure the valve spring tool didn't compress the retainer onto the valve(and into the piston) when the valve didn't immediately slide up through the retainer.

I did end up pulling cams and rocker assembly back out to inspect everything. I disassembled the rockers and made sure they were all intact and in good shape. I inspected the retainers and keepers, and also put a straight edge across the retainers and across the valve stem tips. I used a flashlight, but couldn't detect a noticeable gap between any of the valves and straight edge.

Here's an updated video after the disassembly/reassembly and readjusting the valve lash.


Thanks for the input so far everyone. I'm kinda leaning towards a retainer/keeper issue, or a bent valve at this point. I'll update after the leakdown/compression test.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:20 PM
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Have you had a chance to try anything else yet? Curious to see if it's been resolved yet or what else you've tried?
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