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Did you use an over head spring compressor, or a hammer-tool, to remove the cotters?
Compression test will not unearth bent valves at a small level, only a leak down test will do that.
Do do not pull the head to look for bent valves. A leak down test will find them. I highly doubt you have bent valves. I’ve seen my share and the only noise they make is an exhaust puff.
All the old keepers are accounted for?
Last edited by Billman250; 06-13-2019 at 04:43 AM.
I've literally had the exact same noise since I've "upgraded" mine last year. My commission numbers were similar being slightly lower. I highly doubt a bent valve but that could be a slight possibility. I've done my valve adjustments 3x times. I've had a couple friends and the Honda dealer check it out and everyone has said it's normal. The only thing I haven't done is to check for bent valves but that's just because I really don't think that's the issue...
Have you had any other opinions or have anyone else look at it for you?
Originally Posted by Jim Bravo
I haven't figured the issue out yet, but I'm still working on it.
I did a compression test earlier today. Cyl. #2 average was the lowest at 222 psi. The others were around 230 psi. I don't think that tells me anything. I'd assume a bent valve would drop the compression in a slightly more significant way.
I also tried the cardboard tube trick, which didn't really lead me anywhere. The injectors seemed noisiest, but the sound never went away after unplugging individual injectors while running.
I ended up pulling the valvetrain back out, and decided to pull the intake retainers off. After inspecting all components again, I'm still stumped; everything looks great, no issues found with the retainer install, no parts missing, etc. There are a couple of valve seals that could use replacing. That's it.
I'm at a standstill right now. I could put it back together with AP1 retainers and see what happens. I'm also thinking I may be better off pulling the head off and checking the valves.
TLDR;
Ticking noise after ap2 retainer install
Valve lash set properly multiple times with no noise change.
Compression seems within spec
Valvetrain pulled back apart and inspected. All seems in good shape, including retainers.
Considering pulling head to check for possible bent valves.
Any further guidance before I start removing the head would be appreciated.
Did you use an over head spring compressor, or a hammer-tool, to remove the cotters?
To remove them for the original install, I used an over head compressor like this one:
For this last removal, I started to use the tool but had trouble getting the first cotter to release from the retainer. I ended up using a deep socket and hammer to pop them off.
Originally Posted by Juniorx
I've literally had the exact same noise since I've "upgraded" mine last year. My commission numbers were similar being slightly lower. I highly doubt a bent valve but that could be a slight possibility. I've done my valve adjustments 3x times. I've had a couple friends and the Honda dealer check it out and everyone has said it's normal. The only thing I haven't done is to check for bent valves but that's just because I really don't think that's the issue...
Have you had any other opinions or have anyone else look at it for you?
Sounds like we’re nearly parallel in our experience. I haven’t had anyone else check it out in person yet though. I’ve posted in the local s2000 Facebook groups asking for help but got no bites. I did get contact info for another s2ki member that’s not terribly far from me, but his schedule is pretty full.
Do do not pull the head to look for bent valves. A leak down test will find them. I highly doubt you have bent valves. I’ve seen my share and the only noise they make is an exhaust puff.
All the old keepers are accounted for?
I just confirmed all of the ap1 keepers and retainers were accounted for. However.... I’ve misplaced an ap2 keeper since last night .
I’ll pick up a leak down tester and check just to be sure. At least I’ll have the peace of mind if the results come out ok.
I’ve got a set of valve seals headed my way. Should I get the tool to replace them, or can I do without?
For what it's worth, the dealership has said it's normal and that the valve train is just noisy... I've been driving it on and off but haven't been abusing it. Overtime, the sound has either decreased or I've just gotten used to it. I've put about 1500 miles on it without any adverse effects as of yet. I was very paranoid about it as you seem to be right now. After I've had multiple opinions and the sound seemingly decreasing over time I've forgotten about it now to be honest. This may be an uneducated guess, however, I was wondering if maybe the weight of the new retainers and the mechanism of how the newer retainers and keepers would attribute to the noise but that's just me shooting in the dark at this point.
Dealer is stupid. When it’s right, this engine is whisper quiet.
So I agree, but would just switching the retainers and keepers and adjusting valves multiple times cause any of this? Drives fine, numbers are fine and after multiple opinions and fellow s2000 owners who have plenty more experience than me and say it's fine.
I'm not in disagreement with you, just stumped and at a loss as the OP as our situations are literally the same.
Befor re-installation of the Camshafts, have you blown out every thread in the cylinder head where bolts go in thorughly with compressed air?
If oil stays in the bottom of the thread holes, the bolt could feel screwd down O.K., but in reality it maybe just sits "hydrolocked" on a drop of oil on the bottom of the thread.
Befor re-installation of the Camshafts, have you blown out every thread in the cylinder head where bolts go in thorughly with compressed air?
I never did this. Maybe I will if I take the valve cover back off.
I did pick up a leak down tester this morning. I did a cold test, but the % was crazy; like 80% loss per cylinder. I didn’t hear any of it leaking through the throttle body or out the exhaust. It seemed to be all from the crankcase. This was before I put the valve springs back on, so I was able to confirm the pressure would hold the valves shut. Also, I held each intake valve open with pressure in the cylinder to force air passed that valve, and pulled the valve back up to confirm the pressure would seat the valve and air noise through the TB would stop.
I felt pretty confident the intake valves weren’t leaking pressure, so I put it back together with AP1 retainers and cotters. I very thoroughly inspected each part through the reinstallation, including everything in the rocker assembly. I rechecked the valve lash while I was at it, but it didn’t seem like it changed.
I started it up and it was quiet enough. Like clockwork though, it switched over to the louder ticking as soon as it was warmed up. I did a warm leak down test, which was still not very great. All cylinders showed between 30-40% loss. Again, I couldn’t hear any of it from the TB or exhaust, but I did hear it faintly from the valve cover ports. I’m not sure if it’s the harbor freight tester that has an issue, or something in the bottom end.
I thought I heard a clicking while turning the crank for the leak down test, so I quickly pulled the valve cover back off and spun the crank to try to find the source. It seemed like it happened whenever the cam lobes made contact with the rockers. Since it was happening in each cylinder, I assumed it was probably normal and not the noise I hear while it’s running.
The time it took to finish putting all of the parts back on the car was enough for the engine to cool slightly. I started the engine and revved it without the loud ticking. Then again, like a switch was flipped, the ticking started again.
I’m lost with it right now, but I’ve got to give up on trying to fix it for awhile. If anyone knows a good shop in the middle Tennessee area, I’d be glad to have someone else give it a shot. I don’t have confidence in a Honda dealer to attempt to diagnose this without throwing parts at it.
TLDR;
swapped back to AP1 retainers, didn’t fix a thing
leakdown #’s sucked, but didn’t point to bent valves
06-12-2019, 11:16 PM
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