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UOA of Castrol Syntec 0W-30 AP2 at 51K

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UOA of Castrol Syntec 0W-30 AP2 at 51K

 
Old 12-07-2009, 02:59 AM
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Default UOA of Castrol Syntec 0W-30 AP2 at 51K

This is a Dyson Analysis report:

Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (GC gold)-2nd fill
Oil filter- Honda PCX-004 (new for OCI)
Air filter- Honda PCX-003 (new for OCI)
Fuel- Shell V-Power 93 octane
Oil additive- 3ozs Auto-Rx
Fuel additives- MMO for 2/3 of OCI;LCD, inc. FPPlus for last 1/3 of OCI
Engine is OEM stock with 51,652 total miles
OCI is 5210 miles
This car is mostly used for exhilarating joy rides, but does get groceries on occasion.

Iron-14 PPM
Copper-7
Tin-0
Lead-1
Chromium-0
Nickel-0
Aluminum-3
Titanium-0
Silver-0
Calcium-1537
Magnesium-458
Zinc-1063
Phosphorus-1017
Barium-0
Molybdenum-0
Antimony-0
Silicon-9
Sodium-23
Boron-1
Potassium---0
Vanadium-0
[email protected]
[email protected]
TAN-3.08
Flash point-260F
Oxidation-19
Nitration-12
Karl Fisher#-528
TBN-4.9
Fuel-1.81%
Soot-0
Glycol-0.23% (a fuel add was the source)
Visc index-162
Sulfate by-products=23

This is the third UOA I've done on this car; the first two were done by Blackstone Labs. Here are those first two reports:




FYI, Dyson reports come with a 5 minute MP3 audio that explains all the data and Terry Dyson (Tribologist) provides an interpretation of the data for you. Also, the lab that Dyson uses (MRT labs) looks at up to 15 microns with their spectrometer, while Blackstone looks at up to 10 microns. Dyson also uses a different method (FTIR) for flash point a fuel dilution computation than Blackstone, thus the big difference in values.

I find Blackstone Labs to be a quite economical source of data for wear trending, but is significantly lacking for other information that you might be looking for. Dyson is the state of the art in the industry for data and interpretation, but is considerably more expensive. If you really want to know what is going on with your equipment, I recommend Dyson if you can afford it
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:14 AM
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You stated 0W30... but the other Blackstone reports you posted are for the Diff? ???

Additionally - while the analysis you posted would be useful for someone that uses this oil with the same oil additive (not a fan of any oil additive BTW), it unfortunately says nothing of Castrol 0W30 alone.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:54 AM
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Sorry about the wrong UOA's from my album. I think I fixed it now.

Yes, this sample of Castrol Syntec had 3 ozs of Auto-Rx in the sump. I like this product and will continue to use it, especially with group IV (PAO) oils which are known to be tough on internal seals. Here is a description of what's in Auto-Rx:

"Auto-Rx® is made up of three ester groups. The lanolin ester is the main cleaning agent. Its function is to impregnate the surface of varnish and cooked up deposits. The second is an aliphatic ester. Its function is to provide for better film forming of the host oil, eliminating the potential of dry spots in the oiling system, during the cleaning process. This component is also very resistant to oxidation and is a supplement to the host oil while the contamination is being removed and deposited to the filtration media. The last ester is a biodegradable, polyol ester, which provides extra, extreme pressure capability to the host oil. Utilizing heat, pressure, and flow generated within the oiling system, Auto-Rx® safely and effectively dissolves deposits. Deposits form slowly over time; they should be cleaned slowly and methodically, as well.

The ester combination provides polarity to the host oil, giving the lubricant an attraction to metal surfaces, reclaiming these surfaces from the contamination. Lubricating oils perform well in clean working conditions. Lubricating oils can either lubricate or clean. They cannot do both well. Detergents in motor oils are added to try and maintain a clean system. They do little to nothing on deposits that have already formed."

The only thing different you will notice about a UOA that includes these fatty acids might be an elevated TAN. All esters will do this from my understanding. I also suspect the Auto-Rx might lower viscosity values at high temps (it's a 20 grade at 100C). But the lanolin esters are very thick when cold (below 40F).
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:25 AM
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Thanks for posting this info Indymac. I've been looking for more info on this oil in our cars in recent times, I've always regarded this oil as being a great potential match for this engine.

I have to say the first two runs you had with the other oils were pretty amazing, it would seem hard to find an oil that made those numbers look any better. Great looking reports.

Did Terry provide any explanation on the higher iron numbers on this report. Cleaning effect , etc....... . I know that is always a concern when you change oils, particularly from lower group to higher group.

The single greatest wear metal difference I see on many of these reports is the iron wear numbers. I personally am shooting to find an oil that helps keep my iron numbers in the single digits, I prefer not to see double digit iron numbers if possible. I don't have enough miles on my current oil to do a UOA yet, but I hope to later in 2010. If the current oil I'm running doesn't produce any great numbers I was going to try the GC next.

I guess you really need to do a second run of this oil to get an accurate assessment of it's performance. What are your thoughts on the information in these three reports ?. Any insight on the iron numbers would be helpful, thanks for testing and posting.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:15 AM
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I don't have a definitive answer for the higher Fe level. Terry pretty much discounted it as not that important, probably a result of looking at 15 microns vs 10 microns with Blackstone. He is very familiar with BS Labs since he has a cooperative agreement to do interpretations for them.

Also, he has mentioned to me in the past that high fuel dilution can cause higher Fe wear. This sample could possibly be the highest fuel dilute I've seen on this car. It's difficult to compare apples to oranges though.

He was very impressed with the low piston and ring wear and said staying with GC would not be a problem. But getting the fuel combustion better would help with the Fe/Cu levels. I think I'll go back to the K&N air filter. All other tune aspects are optimum right now on this stock engine. The previous two UOA's were with the K&N air filter.

As far as when you should do a UOA, I'd say try to wait until after your second fill of an oil. But sooner is better if you suspect you have a component problem that you are having trouble diagnosing.

I don't know if I'll continue using GC or not. GF-5 oils might be out by the time I'm ready for another oil change. Terry thinks this oil (RLI)might be a great match for the S2K application though if I can afford it:

http://www.renewablelube.com/pdf/Bio-Synth...0W30%20PCMO.pdf

But that's assuming I continue to have high fuel dilution issues.
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:02 AM
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INDYMAC: did the Valvoline and the Penzoil create any varnish?

Almost all of the time, when Auto-Rx is mentioned over on BITOG, they use it in cheap dino oil for short OCI's to get rid of varnish / sludge, create by years and years of dino.
You say that you will continue to use the Auto-Rx, but why?

If there is an oil that doesn't need any extra additives, its GC.
IMO all (brand) oils do not need extra additives.

I would not even consider using an extra additive in my current Amsoil SSO.


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Old 12-08-2009, 04:37 AM
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All great questions Spitfire.

I never had the valvecover off until I had already done a ARX treatment with cheap dino and was in the middle of a ARX rinse phase at 41K. The valve train and timing chain were spotless when I had the valves adjusted. So I don't know whether the PP 10W-30 EOP (my favorite oil so far, but discontinued) or the MaxLife Synthetic 10W-30 SL (also discontinued) caused any deposit or varnish formation while in use. I just fell in love with Auto-Rx after it saved my Tundra tranny and cleaned up the valvetrain on it as well. I figured why not use this stuff in all my vehicles? So I did and still will...prevention I guess.

I'm happy that you have blind faith in the oil companies. But you have to allow me to have my suspicions about their integrity. I just feel that the economic environment and the pressures to cut corners wherever possible, combined with the lack of oversight on quality control in the industry gives me a different attitude than you.

I have the same suspicions about the airlines (and I'm a retired Naval Aviator) and our police force to protect us. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Maybe so, maybe not.

Maybe I should start a thread on politics?
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:22 AM
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INDYMAC Posted on Dec 8 2009, 03:37 PM
I'm happy that you have blind faith in the oil companies.
No, no, no... don't make me feel like some kind of "sucker" that is falling for the ad campain of some oil company.

After all, Auto-Rx made you fall for theirs: you bought their product and you don't need it in your S2000, especially using GC.

I've used my Shell with confidence, did a lot of reserach on what oil to use and the Shell came out as (IMO) the best, now it is discontinued.
The UOA showed a drop in wear metals/mile, it did not shear, it coped with the fuel dilution of the MY'00 engine.
I think Amsoil is not cutting corners, especially not when it comes to their top oils.
I would be more suspicious about ExxonMobil.
And there is "proof" they cut cornes when they stopped using GRP-IV base oils and still called it syn and asked for a syn price.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? Maybe so, maybe not.
Certainly.
Prevention can also come from good oil alone.
Don't you think?
Besides that, prevention could also be: not idle your engine to "operating temp", use the 15400-PCX oil filter, wait to go to redline until you have driven for 10 minutes or so, the list is longer than I want to type.

Maybe I should start a thread on politics?
If you can make it S2000 related.. you might get away with it

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Old 12-08-2009, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SpitfireS,Dec 8 2009, 11:22 AM
Prevention can also come from good oil alone.
Don't you think?
Josey Wales: When I get to likin' someone, they ain't around long.
Lone Watie: I notice when you get to DISlikin' someone they ain't around for long neither.

This is how I feel about engine oils these days. I think I'll stay with my maintenance dose of ARX and be a happy camper!
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:58 AM
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yeah there are too many variables on the one report to make things comparable, and switching labs certainly can have an effect.

With the fuel dilution I was going to suggest a Redline fuel treatment in case the injectors aren't spraying totally well, but your MMO should have kept the injectors relatively clean. I wonder where the fuel dilution comes from ?, I know we have overly rich air/fuel mixtures at WOT.

The oil sheared a bit which you don't see too often on GC, could be from the fuel dilution and a tad from the auto-rx. Given that the oil sheared a bit, I think it was a good choice to have GC in the crankcase as it started out as a thick 30 as you know. The other oils may not have done as well with fuel dilution. I'd be inclined to run this oil again, it's still one of my favs. I like the idea of a small maintenance dose of A-RX, I think the product has proven itself over the years , if Terry is good with it then I wouldn't hesitate using it.

Thanks for encouraging an interesting discussion.
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