Matt_in_VA

I realize that with every passing year there is more to learn about with the exponential growth in technologies, science, medicine, etc.

With that stated: I was appalled by this report this morning with the results of a survey by the Pugh Charitable Trust (as reported by NPR)

Listen to the report here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5205322

that revealed that over fifty percent of college graduates from four year schools do not have the basic skills to read and comprehend a newspaper article from start to finish, or be able to calculate a fifteen percent tip in their head!

I will be the first one to admit that there are some VERY bright and intelligent people out there. But, I have also never been one to confuse knowledge with intelligence. IMHO, you can teach one but not the other.

I realize that the need for some "general knowledge" evolves over time. For example, one does not need to know how to start a fire by rubbing two sticks together if one never camps. However, one would assume that virtually everyone needs to know how to calculate a tip at a restaurant? What is going on with our education system?

Is this the long term product of the short term thinking about not leaving kids back for lack of performance in school as to not to "hurt their self esteem"? How do we expect to compete in a global economy if we are producing graduates that lack in reading, math and critical thinking skills?

What do you think?

RC - Ryder

Only 57% of student entering college graduate in 6 - yes six - years. 80% of our elementary teachers graduate from the lowest 20% of their college graduating class. 37% of high school math and science teachers in our elementary schools were neither math or science education majors. In the inner cities, that stat is 53%. Enrollment of males in colleges is now well below 50% (not a shot at the ladies). The bulk of education funding initiatives go to bring the bottom up, not to enrich and motivate the top students. Instead of more gifted programs everywhere, many schools split up the best students among classes in hope they'll motivate and level out the less inclined. The highest peak of our education system was determined to be 1965; and it's been going downhill unabated ever since. Will next generations even be smart and innovative and motivated enough to keep our world beating economy going.

We all ought to be concerned, and we should not be surprised. One of my pet pieves; I should just bite my tongue. There is a lot of blame to go around and it is not money. Only one country in the world - Switzerland - spends more per student on eduation than the US.

Hockey

I think our kids need to be in school for more hours of the day. Way too many half days, teacher conferences, holidays.....etc. My girlfriend is a 4th grade teacher and often talks about how kids miss school, miss the lesson, and fall behind. She does not have the flexibility to tutor that one individual and has to cater to the class as a whole. She is also rarely available after school for kids to "catch up", and they are left to get outside assistance (hire a tutor).

My sister has been teaching English in China for each of the last 3 summers. There is a HUGE difference overseas as to the importance of an education. There they stay in school for more hours of the day, and also go six days a week.

We will continue to fall behind other countries as this trend plays on.

My thoughts from the "little table".

-Hockey

Chris Stack

I think maybe the cheap bastards should be tipping more that 15%!

Move the decimal point to the left one spot, and double that number. Voila, 20%!




Seriously though, I've always said we need to bring dodgeball back. You learn that you are probably not the best, and that sometimes you aren't even very good at all. You also learn, if you want to get better, and not have the crap kicked out of you, you have to work harder than everyone else. And, as in real life, sometimes you win, and sometimes you get knocked on your keister.



And this is from someone who wasn't athletic at all in grade school.

ralper

I don't know. I've heard and read all of the statistics too, but I do think something is way out of whack. The competition to be admitted to the reputable four year colleges is more fierce than it has ever been. The standards seem higher, and more effort is being made to see to it that the student graduates with the knowledge one would expect from a college education.

Whereas I think there is some truth and need for concern, I also think that the standardized testing and the quest for accountablility may very well be an attempt to politicize the college education.

We have just spent the last year visiting colleges in an attempt to help our oldest son, now a high school senior, choose a school. Based on what we've heard, from every college that we visited, the reason that the average stay in school has gone from just over 4 years to almost 6 years in the last twenty years is that so many students are changing majors. Today, the single largest major on college applications is "Undecided". It oftentimes takes the student a year or a year and a half to decide on a major, and then, they often change their minds once or twice. Each change requires taking some additional credits inorder to have enough to graduate with a major in that particular discipline.

I personally don't think that is such a bad thing. I think its unfair to ask an 18 year old to decide what he or she wants to do for the rest of their lives before they've had a chance to explore and try out the options. While there are some students who are lucky enough to have found the course of study that they want to "wrap their arms around" while in high school, most have not.

Couple that the the increasing need of many occupations and professions for a masters degree. My profession, accounting, now requires in many states 150 hours before the candidate can be certified. In this case, you have to stay longer then 4 years just to get started. I know that the same is now true in my wife's profession, Physical Therapy (actually you need a phD). And it is true or becoming true in many others.

Id like to know more about the study because I find it hard to believe that our colleges are actually doing as poorly as it would lead you to think.

Matt_in_VA

Both comments are interesting. I have my own personal experience regarding dumbing down.

But, as I have a reputation as being a thread killer, I will keep them to my self for now.

Keep the opinions and thoughts coming. Who knows, in the end, perhaps we could distill this thread down to a coherent message that could be sent to your local school board members and the "so called leadership" in Washington.

As we do not have any children (by choice) it disturbs me as a concerned citizen to learn of such a report. I can not but sit here and wonder if we are seeing the results already. On one hand we have an invasion of unskilled labor from "south of the boarder" that are filling the jobs that American's "do not want" in the service sector and construction (in some cases semi-skilled). On the other hand, there is a "brain drain" from places like SE Asia, the middle east, and the countries of the former Soviet Union to the U.S..

Unless one factors in another dynamic* it looks like we are heading for "the perfect storm" from an educational point of view.

* No, I am not referring to off shore out sourcing. That is already an issue.

plankfarm

Yep. What Chris said!

We went sledding the other day...kids up and down all over the hills.
"Back in the day" the smaller kids were taught by the older kids to stay in the middle to go down, go to the sides to climb back up. Basic 'hill etiquette'.
Not anymore. I said to my teen, "Just mow them down, they'll learn to go to the side to climb back up, albeit the hard way."
I realized then, I sounded like my dad...
LOL

Matt_in_VA

Rob, Once again with you but I am fairly certain that it is from the opposite direction.

How is this concept for being a bit different and to help solve the Social Security problem that is coming down the road?

I think that all us Vintage members will agree that part of our life experiences that have helped shape us into who we are is partially based on our travels. Regardless if that is to other parts of the country or other parts of the world, it changes and shapes our point of view.

Referring back to your comment about most 18 year olds not being able to "wrap their arms around" what they want to do for the rest of their lives. I purpose the following thought.

After graduating from high school. That everyone that graduated from a High School in the USA, whether a citizen or not, be given a choice of how they want to spend the next four years serving this country of ours. That could be in the military, public service such as tutoring, the Peace Corp, etc. Based on that choice they would then earn education credits. After their four years of service to our country in which ever capacity they chose. At the age of twenty-two they would collect their social security payments which would be an equal amount based on their four years of service starting at the age of eighteen. Regardless of what choice they made for they public service. During that eight year "early retirement" they would be able to spend their monthly income (as retired people do today as they see fit). They could travel, party, invest it, and broaden their horizons to "wrap their arms around" what ever it is that they want to do with the rest of their lives. What ever they see fit.

At the age of thirty when the siphon ends. Based on the credits that one earned depending on what public service one chose. One could use those credits to attend college and pursue a four year degree. If one wanted to go on, a student loan program would be available.

Either way, no matter how one decided to spend the siphon one would be on there own for the rest of their lives. If you made wise decisions and could retire comfortably at what ever age you could, so be it. If not, one would work until you die. Consider this social in-security plan similar to a reverse mortgage.

Just throwing it out there as an alternative.

Chris Stack

Nevermind the rest of it, let me tell you as a military officer, we have enough (discipline and other) problems with the people who WANT to be in the military, and sign up for it. Dump a few million more on us (or any other organization) who DON'T want to be there, and life will be Hell. You will find very few military leaders who are for mandatory military service for this reason alone.

Quite honestly, people are happiest and most productive when they are doing what they want to do. I think the best thing most people can do is go out and be a productive member of society, and contribute what they can (to say nothing of getting jobs so they can pay their taxes, and thus, my salary).

Traveler

Either hundreds of thousands of students are finding a way to finish their degrees without being able to read, or a few researchers created a flawed study. I know which of those I consider to be the most likely.