British sports cars bought new
02-02-2004, 10:48 AM
#11
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
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02-02-2004, 06:01 PM
#12
Former Sponsor
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
Rob, I think the Japanese manufacturer's in the early 70's made their greatest advancements in quality in the "auto electrical" area.
Rob, I think the Japanese manufacturer's in the early 70's made their greatest advancements in quality in the "auto electrical" area.
02-02-2004, 06:32 PM
#13
British cars of the 50s, 60s and 70s were charming. There was a certain charisma and character to them that was lacking in the cars that anyone else was producing. Had they paid more attention to detail I doubt that they would have disappeared. Jaguars were sexy, MGs had character as did Triumphs. Nothing coming out of Detroit was even close, and Japan wasn't yet ready. The Volkswagen was quite popular, but that was an entirely different type of vehicle.
It was simply too difficult to own a British car. When I'd leave in the morning, I was never quite sure if I'd make it home that evening. I could always rely on something to come apart. The switches, the brakes, the lights, something. In the beginning, it was a fun adventure, but as time passed and I took on more responsiblities, I needed a car that I could rely on. I loved my MGB, and it was reasonable, but certainly far from perfect and far from being what I'd consider a real reliable car. My TR-6 was terribly unreliable.
I'm not convinced that the Japanese took the market away from the British automakers any more than I'm convinced that they took it away from the American big three. I think, to a degree, the British and American automakers gave the market away.
It was simply too difficult to own a British car. When I'd leave in the morning, I was never quite sure if I'd make it home that evening. I could always rely on something to come apart. The switches, the brakes, the lights, something. In the beginning, it was a fun adventure, but as time passed and I took on more responsiblities, I needed a car that I could rely on. I loved my MGB, and it was reasonable, but certainly far from perfect and far from being what I'd consider a real reliable car. My TR-6 was terribly unreliable.
I'm not convinced that the Japanese took the market away from the British automakers any more than I'm convinced that they took it away from the American big three. I think, to a degree, the British and American automakers gave the market away.
02-03-2004, 04:37 AM
#14
The American big three, or big five in those days, did then what they still do now - they focused on short term profits; quality be damned.
02-03-2004, 04:00 PM
#15
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Yes, I think Detroit and the Brits gave the market away. A sign that those great (looking) British sports cars of the 50s and 60s were "right" is the Japanese copying them. (The Bard: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....") Datsun's 240Z, in the 70s, copied the basic British sportscar design ideas: large round gauges, including tach & speedo, low bucket seats, no back seat, long hood, short rear deck, floor shifter, manual shift, etc., etc.. By making manual trannies and round gauges popular, the Japanese may have preserved them for us today! I recall thinking in the 60s -- 70s that round gauges and manual shifts were in danger of becoming extinct. I don't know how many people asked me why I was still shifting for myself back then.
Brit-out-of-the-box---- my MGA roadster had only 2000 miles on it when I bought it, practically new in 1960. But trouble was constant for the year or so I owned it. (I DID love to fiddle with those SU carbs. Adding oil, or "topping off" those dampers with the brass nuts was just irresistable!) Then, about 1980, after lusting after a Jag XJ for what seemed an eternity, I considered buying one with a Chevy small-block V-8. A company in Texas was marketing them. But I recovered when I realized that the Jag straight six was the ONE reliable component on the entire car. End of Brit experiences.
Legal-- is your Type S back from the hospital and all new and shiny now?
Brit-out-of-the-box---- my MGA roadster had only 2000 miles on it when I bought it, practically new in 1960. But trouble was constant for the year or so I owned it. (I DID love to fiddle with those SU carbs. Adding oil, or "topping off" those dampers with the brass nuts was just irresistable!) Then, about 1980, after lusting after a Jag XJ for what seemed an eternity, I considered buying one with a Chevy small-block V-8. A company in Texas was marketing them. But I recovered when I realized that the Jag straight six was the ONE reliable component on the entire car. End of Brit experiences.
Legal-- is your Type S back from the hospital and all new and shiny now?
02-03-2004, 04:11 PM
#16
Former Sponsor
I love the the scene in the movie about the first Cannonball Baker Sea-to-Shining Sea Memorial Trophy Dash (can't remember the title), the one where the guys with the E-type are under the car trying to fix something as all the other constestants blast out of New York City on the way to California. If I remember correctly, the problem is the starter motor, which the drivers say is a marvelous piece of engineering save for one thing: it won't work.
02-03-2004, 04:14 PM
#17
Originally posted by dlq04
The American big three, or big five in those days, did then what they still do now - they focused on short term profits; quality be damned.
The American big three, or big five in those days, did then what they still do now - they focused on short term profits; quality be damned.
Dave
I think that is absolutely correct, and I think that is a large part of the reason that the American manufacturers lost market to the Japanese. There are, of course, other issues, but the short term thinking has a great deal of the blame.
It's harder to figure out what happened to the British automakers. What caused the cars to be of the poor quality that they were. Many have blamed the labor unions and certainly they were part of the problem, but I don't think that's the whole story. I'm not sure if they were as shortsighted as the American manufacturers, but I imagine they were not nearly so profitable. Still, they were able to sell every MG and Triumph that they brought over. They should have been able to give the Japanese a good run for their money. What happened? Any ideas?
02-03-2004, 04:27 PM
#18
A humorous aside to all of this:
My folks had a 1971 Chevy Vega. Unfortunately, this was before the lemon laws, and the car was towed in 18 times in the first year. The car wouldn't start in the rain, and at one year and 15,000 miles the aluminum engine warped.
At one point my father was telling a friend about the car and the troubles he was having to which his friend replied, "Funny, I didn't think it was made in England". I had just bought my 1972 MGB and didn't find it funny at all. I had a lot to learn.
My folks had a 1971 Chevy Vega. Unfortunately, this was before the lemon laws, and the car was towed in 18 times in the first year. The car wouldn't start in the rain, and at one year and 15,000 miles the aluminum engine warped.
At one point my father was telling a friend about the car and the troubles he was having to which his friend replied, "Funny, I didn't think it was made in England". I had just bought my 1972 MGB and didn't find it funny at all. I had a lot to learn.
02-03-2004, 06:45 PM
#19
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ralper
02-04-2004, 01:02 PM
#20
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1st British sports car -- 1959 Triumph TR3
Really pretty reliable. Never any engine or drive line problems. The wire wheels required frequent maintenance - adjusting spoke tension, replacing broken spokes, truing, etc. Thinking back about the wheels makes me realize why wire wheels, while very attractive, are not very practical. Least reliable thing on the car was the exhaust system. It totally fell apart within 18 months. No replacement parts readily available (and no money). I cobbled together an exhaust system from a variety of parts which lasted until the car was sold.
Last British sports car -- 1964 Triumph TR4
Superior in almost any measurable way the the TR3, but not really as much fun to drive. Mechanically not bad at all. Again no engine or drive line problems ever. Same old poor quality exhaust system though. This time I wrapped the failed muffler with metal strips made from coffee cans. Sealed with sealant made for aircraft fuel tanks and secured with large hose clamps. This setup actually lasted for as long as I owned the TR4. (This was all done after I had moved to Hawaii - replacement parts were not available in a timely period.) After a couple of years I started having some electrical problems mostly centered around the battery. I think the primary problem was the placement of the battery on the firewall directly behind the engine. Too much heat didn't help the battery.
No more British cars period. I considered E-type Jag based on looks, but was too apprehensive about quality and maintenance costs.
Really pretty reliable. Never any engine or drive line problems. The wire wheels required frequent maintenance - adjusting spoke tension, replacing broken spokes, truing, etc. Thinking back about the wheels makes me realize why wire wheels, while very attractive, are not very practical. Least reliable thing on the car was the exhaust system. It totally fell apart within 18 months. No replacement parts readily available (and no money). I cobbled together an exhaust system from a variety of parts which lasted until the car was sold.
Last British sports car -- 1964 Triumph TR4
Superior in almost any measurable way the the TR3, but not really as much fun to drive. Mechanically not bad at all. Again no engine or drive line problems ever. Same old poor quality exhaust system though. This time I wrapped the failed muffler with metal strips made from coffee cans. Sealed with sealant made for aircraft fuel tanks and secured with large hose clamps. This setup actually lasted for as long as I owned the TR4. (This was all done after I had moved to Hawaii - replacement parts were not available in a timely period.) After a couple of years I started having some electrical problems mostly centered around the battery. I think the primary problem was the placement of the battery on the firewall directly behind the engine. Too much heat didn't help the battery.
No more British cars period. I considered E-type Jag based on looks, but was too apprehensive about quality and maintenance costs.
