Leopardsocks

Yesterday, I was waiting for Mrs Socks to finish off her shopping, and had a few minutes to waste.

I quickly scoffed down a cream cake before she caught me, and still no appearance, so I wandered into a newsagency nearby.

I browsed the motoring magazine section, and saw a few magazines focussing on "Classic" cars. I had a quick flick through.

There were classic Alfa's, Peugeot's, Morris', a few exotics, and a lot of British, and some American muscle cars.

But not ONE Japanese car. Not one.

Now, I love the older cars as much as anyone, but can someone please tell me how a 1965 Volkswagen can be a classic car, and a Datsun 1600 not?

How about the terrifyingly bad Triumph TR7, but NO Skyline, or Fairlady, or 240Z.

A Mini, but no early Corolla, the car which effectively destroyed the British car industry.

So, it seemed to me that perhaps the word Classic should have been replaced by the word "Snob", or "Old Fashioned", or dare I say it "Racist".

Many of the cars I saw as "classic" were, lets be frank, pieces of crap.

Sure, Volkswagens were ubiquitous and robust, but hardly a car of any distinction.

And if British cars were so superior and character building, why is there no British motor industry any more?

As for Peugeot: hands up anyone who can name a "classic" Peugeot? It crossed my mind that many of these so called "classics" were being pushed simply to fill out the pages and prevent an influx of Japanese vehicles.

What about the first Mazda Rotary? The early Celica's? Nissans Skyline?

Nope. Nothing.

But there WAS a glorious Ford Cortina. Please. The Cortina was, by the mid 70's a caricature of a Japanese car, without the engineering quality and refinement.

So, I'm leaning towards snobbery, with a hint of delusion. Perhaps classic car afficionados that ignore Japanese marques believe that a classic car had to be overengineered, underpowered, and as safe as playing pass the parcel with a live hand grenade to qualify in their precious genre.

Sure, many cars like the MGB. Jaguar Mk 7, and even the Mini can stand tall as part of the evolution of the modern car.

But its time Japan was recognised for its role, and its development of some of the finest mass production cars available.

ralper

I agree with you, and I wonder about the same thing. I suppose that the Japanese cars of the past weren't as popular as the European marques and that is part of the reason. People remember and celebrate what is familiar to them. Still, I too think that there were many Japanese cars deserving of recognition.

Toyota FJ40
Toyota 2000
Honda Civic Cvcc
Honda S600
Honda Accord
Datsun 240Z
Datsun Fairlady
Mazda RX7
Mazda Miata
Lexus

Just to name a few. All landmark cars, all cars that made a difference. And most as good and as beautiful as anything that came out of Europe or America.

All very important cars.

batguano

As a former owner of a British car(Triumph TR3) and a Japanese car(Mazda RX7) I have to agree with your analysis. My Triumph spent almost as much time on stands as it did on the road. The opposite was true of the FC.

NNY S2k

Maybe because back in the 50's when something was "made in Japan" it was another was of saying junk.

Leopardsocks

I think there is an element of that, for sure.

But surely, people are over that notoriety. Nowadays, its a synonym for quality and technical excellence.

I believe it is discrimination to an extent. Not necessarily racial, so much as envy and a little anger that the Japanese motor vehicle industry wiped out much of the British industry, parts of American industry, and some Europeans.

Those that weren't wiped out became niche vehicles, such as Alfa Romeo - in my humble view the most overrated brand on the planet since the 50's.

So, perhaps the designation of a "classic" car is really another way of saying anti-Japanese, in a brand context. The fact that many of the older cars were manufactured from extremely thick gauge metal making them less prone to corrosion, and they were rather primitive mechanically making them easier to restore, gives them new life that is unwarranted.

Still, it may be interesting to try and predict which Japanese cars will become "classic" - perhaps when Korea has all but destroyed THEIR industries.

To ralpers list, I'd add the Gen IV Prelude, and the Toyota Landcruiser (if thats not what an FJ is in America).

What about the Isuzu Bellett. In the murky depths of my youth, I seem to remember them being rather exceptional in their time.

And any Mitsubishi's?

Legal Bill

1. The magazine publishers are a private enterpise. They publish to the audience that buys the mag. If people clamor for Japanese cars, the publishers will print about them. I have seen the 240Z, 510 and Fairlady discussed in a number of classic car mags.

2. Many people in the US consider a classic car to be a car made before 1970. This had to do with smog control, which began in 1967 and became intolerable by 1970.

3. Resale value drives the classic car market. There are only a few Japanese cars with classic car resale value.

4. Japanese cars of the 60s and 70s were derivative of European cars.

5. The Japanese cars of the 60s and 70s had miles of catching up to do to match the sporting and racing pedigree of european cars. By the time they established themselves, the glory day of sports and touring cars was over.

6. Classic cars are a matter of taste. Fewer people care for the cars mentioned above. I find it illogical to announce that it is time to recognize them. If you want one, buy one.

7. The comparison of a Mini to a Corolla? This is a good explanation for why classic car enthusiasts are not interested in Japanese cars. Minis were and are cool. If you owned one you were cool. Corollas were appliances. They were for the drones who needed to go to work. You might as well ask why the Classic car mags don't have stories about refrigerators.

8. The TR 7 is a POS, but every classic car mag that I ever read that discusses the car tells you that right up front. They are considered a poor mans classic and are often discussed as either cars to be avoided, or cars to be modified with V6 or V8 engines.

9. I'm not sure what racism has to do with it. People were buying the early Japanese cars back in the 60s and 70s. If those folks held any animosity towards the Japanese, they wouldn't have bought the cars would they? Many of those people just didn't see the Japanese cars in a romantic sense. The owners had no lasting desire to own them again in the future. Kids who couldn't afford a car didn't go to sleep at night dreaming about them. That is what you need to build a car following that turns a car into a classic.

10. I hope people who don't know better don't take the comments about the Ford Cortina for granted. Cortinas had a fantastic history in motorsports. Please research it for yourself.

11. I don't care about VW Beetles either, but I can understand why so many folks do.

mikegarrison

"Classic" cars are the cars that rich people either had or wanted to have when they were young. It's as simple as that, really. Apparently the people who are now rich once wanted Hemi 'Cudas, not RX7s.

Leopardsocks

Bill, I swear if I said "Black", you'd say "White".

There are more holes in your theory than a 66 Cortina's rusted floorpan.

Motorsport has nothing to do with what makes a car classic. The Cortina's that raced were not remotely like the Cortina you'd buy and drive home. And this, I know. Believe me. No owner would ever call a Cortina a fantastic car. It was ONE of the examples of why Britain stopped making cars. It was a piece of outmoded, primitive, underpowered, poorly built crap. The GT variants with the Lotus suspension was a great car....but hardly typical.

As to Mini's being "cool", I dont begrudge them their status. But the 69 Corolla was a stunning little car that did everything the Mini did, with greater power, more features and greater endurance than a Mini could ever muster.

Now, I'm not saying that there are not classic cars from ALL countries. There are. But the classic car "industry" if you will is so anti-Japanese it lacks all logic. My "racism" remark was in that context, not human interaction by the way.

However, I do think you've proved my point as an obvious "classic" enthusiast. Sanctimonious and pompous insofar as poorly built, poorly designed and technologically primitve cars are concerned.

The reason many of those precious cars are "classic" is because they were utter garbage, but represented an era. The reason that "golden age" of sports and touring cars died was that people weren't interested in Racing Dinosaurs anymore.

Classic enthusiasts live in a dreamworld where their so called wunderkars were a great example of motoring ingenuity, rather than historic reminders of inept manufacturers who failed to develop their cars to the level of Japanese engineering.

There WERE great cars in the past, that warrant restoration and maintainance as a reminder of how cars evolved.

But why a Datsun 1600 has any catching up to do on a Morris Minor, or Chevrolet Impala, all three cars having NO significant racing heritage is a mystery.

And seeimg that Japanese manufacturers have now been building cars LONGER than many of their British, American and European counterparts, and they have racing success in F1, indycars, and many other levels of motorsport, its time to show them some respect.

HydnHood

There where simply not very many foreign cars in America in the 60s-70s. People want the cars they saw, drove, rode in, and dreamed about. That is why the beetle is a classic, they sold so damn many. My mom drove 4 different beetles and even with all the problems I still have nostalgic memories of them. That is what classic is about, not INOVATION, it is all about nostalgia.


I do remember reading about and wanting a Z240, was a very sweet looking car (this was when I was about 14), although, I never seen owned, rode, or even seen one in the 70s. I have since, but I don

ralper

I don't know. I think you may be confusing collectable cars with classic cars. I don't want to split hairs, but there is a difference.

I think the nostalgic cars, the cars that we wanted to own as kids that we can now afford, are collectables. I think the cars that made a difference, that started trends, that changed the way the automotive world did or saw things are classics. Usually cars are one or the other, sometimes they are both, often they are neither.

Generally, the American Muscle Cars of the 60s that have recently been rediscovered are collectable not classic. Most of the British sportscars are collectables not classic.

The problem is that the word classic has become cheapened to mean both things.