White-Only Hobbies Such As Sports Cars
10-18-2003, 01:28 AM
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White-Only Hobbies Such As Sports Cars
After pursuing several life-long interests for some 40 years now, I've observed them to consist mainly of white, middle-class males. Non-white participants seem few and far between, as do women. The hobbies I have experienced, all mainstream in the USA, include : sports cars, photography, gun collecting, film, classical music, and jazz.
While I don't mind white, middle-class males, each of these hobbies would benefit from the infusion of more diverse viewpoints than exist at present. I even notice it with my wife's hobby, dog training. While women dominate this one, they are 99% white.
There is nothing inherently "white" about any of the above activities; while the greatest cars, guns, and symphonies of the past, for example, were designed by white men, these works can be understood and enjoyed by anyone today. And nothing prevents anyone from creating equal-value works today.
In spite of recent University and public school attempts to re-write history (a'la George Orwell) to make room for relatively unimportant non-whites, that creates a false story. The past was lilly-white and racist, and we can change today, but not yesterday.
What is it about sports cars , for instance, that attracts mainly whites? Japanese cars have a slightly different profile.
While I don't mind white, middle-class males, each of these hobbies would benefit from the infusion of more diverse viewpoints than exist at present. I even notice it with my wife's hobby, dog training. While women dominate this one, they are 99% white.
There is nothing inherently "white" about any of the above activities; while the greatest cars, guns, and symphonies of the past, for example, were designed by white men, these works can be understood and enjoyed by anyone today. And nothing prevents anyone from creating equal-value works today.
In spite of recent University and public school attempts to re-write history (a'la George Orwell) to make room for relatively unimportant non-whites, that creates a false story. The past was lilly-white and racist, and we can change today, but not yesterday.
What is it about sports cars , for instance, that attracts mainly whites? Japanese cars have a slightly different profile.
10-18-2003, 03:18 AM
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This topic has the potential to create a firestorm. There is the potential for misunderstanding and bad feelings here. Still, I think this is an issue worth examining. I am going to reply in what I hope is a civil tone, and I hope that all that follow will keep to our policy. If this thread gets out of hand, Deb and I will take action.
I think that there is a great deal of truth to the issue that many hobbies and activities have developed as "whites only". I think that this is a result of economics and unfortunately of racism, both overt and covert. I hope this is changing.
I believe that whenever people of color, be they Black, Hispanic, Asian or Native American have been allowed to participate and have been able to afford to particpate they have excelled. Unfortunately, in too many cases the financial or social doors have been closed. Again, I hope that is changing.
As far as rewriting history to include "relatively unimportant non-whites" I think that is way off base. I think, thankfully, that there is finally long deserved recognition being given, and that it is a step along the way for a better world for our kids.
I think that there is a great deal of truth to the issue that many hobbies and activities have developed as "whites only". I think that this is a result of economics and unfortunately of racism, both overt and covert. I hope this is changing.
I believe that whenever people of color, be they Black, Hispanic, Asian or Native American have been allowed to participate and have been able to afford to particpate they have excelled. Unfortunately, in too many cases the financial or social doors have been closed. Again, I hope that is changing.
As far as rewriting history to include "relatively unimportant non-whites" I think that is way off base. I think, thankfully, that there is finally long deserved recognition being given, and that it is a step along the way for a better world for our kids.
10-18-2003, 07:11 AM
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I agree with ralper on this one about economics and racism. But I would like to suggest two other things.
One, culturally some hobbies are just not popular. How many whites participate Chinese Opera, Dragon Dancing, Sumo Wrestling, etc. A greater world view is important when considering different values and perspectives.
Secondly, you might consider that your personal experience could be very different from other people. I live in a city where it is very white, 95% white, 5% visible minorities. I am of asian descent and have assimilated to the generally white envionment. Some might consider me a "banana" (yellow on the outside, white on the inside). When attending engineering in university there were 30+% asian, 30+% other, 40% white. I thought that was high minority count, but my black friend from Toronto commented to me that he expected more asians! He just grew up in a predominately Chinese area of Toronto, so school for him was 99% asian, for him it was unusually low! The point being maybe it just the circle of friends, location or just demographics in your area.
Oh about the Jazz thing. Many popular North American musical genres were "invented" by blacks, or african-americans then adopted by the mainstream. Rock and Roll, Blues, Jazz, Hip-Hop..etc.
And history is generally written by the dominant culture, government, etc. People that control the infrastructure generally put themselves in the best light.
One, culturally some hobbies are just not popular. How many whites participate Chinese Opera, Dragon Dancing, Sumo Wrestling, etc. A greater world view is important when considering different values and perspectives.
Secondly, you might consider that your personal experience could be very different from other people. I live in a city where it is very white, 95% white, 5% visible minorities. I am of asian descent and have assimilated to the generally white envionment. Some might consider me a "banana" (yellow on the outside, white on the inside). When attending engineering in university there were 30+% asian, 30+% other, 40% white. I thought that was high minority count, but my black friend from Toronto commented to me that he expected more asians! He just grew up in a predominately Chinese area of Toronto, so school for him was 99% asian, for him it was unusually low! The point being maybe it just the circle of friends, location or just demographics in your area.
Oh about the Jazz thing. Many popular North American musical genres were "invented" by blacks, or african-americans then adopted by the mainstream. Rock and Roll, Blues, Jazz, Hip-Hop..etc.
And history is generally written by the dominant culture, government, etc. People that control the infrastructure generally put themselves in the best light.
10-18-2003, 07:59 AM
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I like debate. I think debate is in my genes. I should have studied law but I don't like the human aspect of law. I feel the same way about organized religion.
I sincerely believe that it's all about economics and cultural values. I also believe that we are all pink on the inside and bleed red. We all want nice things regardless of the insignificant shade of our skins and physical nuances that we are born with. All of us share 99.9% of our DNA. 1% goes to dictate the nuances of features, skin color and diversity. We are far more alike than we are different.
Fongu: That cracked me up. I've never heard the banana analogy before. I've heard cracker, coconut and oreo but not that one.
By the way, we share 50% of our DNA with bananas and ironically enough 98% of our DNA with chimps!
Don't get me started on schools.
I sincerely believe that it's all about economics and cultural values. I also believe that we are all pink on the inside and bleed red. We all want nice things regardless of the insignificant shade of our skins and physical nuances that we are born with. All of us share 99.9% of our DNA. 1% goes to dictate the nuances of features, skin color and diversity. We are far more alike than we are different.
Fongu: That cracked me up. I've never heard the banana analogy before. I've heard cracker, coconut and oreo but not that one.
By the way, we share 50% of our DNA with bananas and ironically enough 98% of our DNA with chimps!
Don't get me started on schools.
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10-18-2003, 11:01 AM
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I think we're getting some light shed on a question that's puzzled me for decades. I hope more will add their insights, as they're helping me. Let me clarify some assumptions I made in posing this question:
1- I was asking about "what I see going on in the USA today and in the recent past"-- mainly white audiences for ??? reasons.
2-Black inventers of jazz are among those given their due, thankfully. Some white musicians were in on the original invention, but theirs was not the main contribution. What I'm seeing is all-white audiences and musicians at concerts of early, traditional jazz, and this is disturbing.
3-I have been involved with history textbooks for almost 50 years now, and believe me, what's included in them is arbitrary and increasingly political: Orwellian to be exact. I chose the term "relatively un-important non-whites" because our formerly racist Western culture refused to allow women and people of color to make contributions, for the most part. (A few women writers got published, sometimes under men's names, and you wouldn't believe how dirty black jazz and ragtime were regarded, "whore house music".) Since only white males were allowed to make history and create much of the arts until recently, it is dishonest to go back and scatter lesser participants' names in the texts. More influential people get squeezed out, like Edison or Jefferson.
3- I don't think economics explains non-white participation. Statistics from the 2000 US Census, for instance, identifies a huge Black middle class, with great disposable income. I'm not convinced we Americans are so hopelessly racist as is fashionable to assume now. In every interest group I've participated in, if someone shows up driving, wearing, carrying, hauling, etc. the Thing we're interested in, no one cares what they look like, just what they brought. (In fact, in my experience, the exception proves the rule; way back in the '60s I went to attend a meeting of "the club", and a "Whites Only" sign had been posted. I quit on the spot, and have never seen anything like it since.)
4- I wonder if anyone's keeping score on my race. Well, you might be wrong. Only one hint: a family member is Chinese.
1- I was asking about "what I see going on in the USA today and in the recent past"-- mainly white audiences for ??? reasons.
2-Black inventers of jazz are among those given their due, thankfully. Some white musicians were in on the original invention, but theirs was not the main contribution. What I'm seeing is all-white audiences and musicians at concerts of early, traditional jazz, and this is disturbing.
3-I have been involved with history textbooks for almost 50 years now, and believe me, what's included in them is arbitrary and increasingly political: Orwellian to be exact. I chose the term "relatively un-important non-whites" because our formerly racist Western culture refused to allow women and people of color to make contributions, for the most part. (A few women writers got published, sometimes under men's names, and you wouldn't believe how dirty black jazz and ragtime were regarded, "whore house music".) Since only white males were allowed to make history and create much of the arts until recently, it is dishonest to go back and scatter lesser participants' names in the texts. More influential people get squeezed out, like Edison or Jefferson.
3- I don't think economics explains non-white participation. Statistics from the 2000 US Census, for instance, identifies a huge Black middle class, with great disposable income. I'm not convinced we Americans are so hopelessly racist as is fashionable to assume now. In every interest group I've participated in, if someone shows up driving, wearing, carrying, hauling, etc. the Thing we're interested in, no one cares what they look like, just what they brought. (In fact, in my experience, the exception proves the rule; way back in the '60s I went to attend a meeting of "the club", and a "Whites Only" sign had been posted. I quit on the spot, and have never seen anything like it since.)
4- I wonder if anyone's keeping score on my race. Well, you might be wrong. Only one hint: a family member is Chinese.
10-18-2003, 11:23 AM
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Here in NoCal, it seems as if there are as many Asians as "whites" driving the s- possibly more. My anecdotal observation. While the s has a different profile, here I see lots of folks of asian appearance driving even the german sports cars. Many more men than women, and I don't recall ever having seen an african american woman driving an s.
Changing the topic somewhat-
What's your area of concentration, prof?
Changing the topic somewhat-
What's your area of concentration, prof?
10-18-2003, 11:58 AM
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SFDukie- cultural historian, and narrow specialization has never interested me so much as the larger, bigger pictures & trends.
I wonder if the traditional Western sports car "nut" is a changing demographic? And, could it be that the world's best automobiles are being designed in Asia? Could these, if true, be connected?
You do live in one of the great concentrations of wealth and technology, which may make things look different from, say Poughkeepsie or Peapicker.
I wonder if the traditional Western sports car "nut" is a changing demographic? And, could it be that the world's best automobiles are being designed in Asia? Could these, if true, be connected?
You do live in one of the great concentrations of wealth and technology, which may make things look different from, say Poughkeepsie or Peapicker.