Interesting take on electric vehicles
03-25-2019, 08:18 PM
#2
Registered User
I can only speak from the perspective of an NZer, but here's our real world example. Note that NZ produces some 08% of power from renewable resources, so we're blessed in an environmental sense. I've converted $US to help the majority of users on here.
Our power is about $0.20/kWh at its highest Winter rate, so $1.16/kWh sounds mighty extortionate to me. We have a MY13 Leaf that will easily do 60 miles on less than a full charge (and does at least 5 days a week), and costs around $2 to fully charge again after that distance.
We use a NZ-standard 240V wall socket to charge the car, and it will go from 0-100% charge in around 8.5 hours, at which point we have around 75-80 miles of range. Since we use about 75% charge each day, the car charges for about 6-6.5 hours. If we cooked a roast we'd use about as much power as the car sucks up, and I haven't noticed any brown-outs on a Sunday night in the street.
Given the distance the car travels, and the price pf gas here (~$6.13/gal) and the fuel consumption of the ICEV we'd otherwise be driving (3.5 litre V6 Nissan) we'll save around $4,000 per year on fuel costs alone. Given what we paid for the car it'll essentially pay itself off in a little over 2.5 years, just on fuel costs alone.
As for the issue of paying road taxes, in NZ we have a Road User Charge (RUC) that is paid separately by owners of diesel vehicles on a distance-traveled basis, whereas for gasoline-powered vehicles it's included in the cost of the gas. Currently EVs are exempt from RUC until 2021, or until EVs are 2% of the total vehicle fleet, whichever comes first, after which they will be subject to RUC as well, most likely at the same rate as small diesel vehicles, or about $US40 per 600 miles. Even then an EV is easily more cost-efficient than a diesel vehicle.
The sums have already been done, and for NZ at least, power supply is not an issue.
Our power is about $0.20/kWh at its highest Winter rate, so $1.16/kWh sounds mighty extortionate to me. We have a MY13 Leaf that will easily do 60 miles on less than a full charge (and does at least 5 days a week), and costs around $2 to fully charge again after that distance.
We use a NZ-standard 240V wall socket to charge the car, and it will go from 0-100% charge in around 8.5 hours, at which point we have around 75-80 miles of range. Since we use about 75% charge each day, the car charges for about 6-6.5 hours. If we cooked a roast we'd use about as much power as the car sucks up, and I haven't noticed any brown-outs on a Sunday night in the street.
Given the distance the car travels, and the price pf gas here (~$6.13/gal) and the fuel consumption of the ICEV we'd otherwise be driving (3.5 litre V6 Nissan) we'll save around $4,000 per year on fuel costs alone. Given what we paid for the car it'll essentially pay itself off in a little over 2.5 years, just on fuel costs alone.
As for the issue of paying road taxes, in NZ we have a Road User Charge (RUC) that is paid separately by owners of diesel vehicles on a distance-traveled basis, whereas for gasoline-powered vehicles it's included in the cost of the gas. Currently EVs are exempt from RUC until 2021, or until EVs are 2% of the total vehicle fleet, whichever comes first, after which they will be subject to RUC as well, most likely at the same rate as small diesel vehicles, or about $US40 per 600 miles. Even then an EV is easily more cost-efficient than a diesel vehicle.
The sums have already been done, and for NZ at least, power supply is not an issue.
03-26-2019, 04:17 AM
#3
Obviously at this point, electrics aren't for everybody. This technology is in its infancy. Electric cars only make sense for certain applications, but the list of those applications is growing as the technology improves.
Electric cars don't make economic sense for most owners and they are not all that green when their life cycle environmental impact is considered. But I believe what we are seeing now is the beginning of a shift from IC to electric as our primary transportation solution, for both economic and environmental reasons. I don't think this shift will take place overnight. It will probably be a process that takes decades. But unless we can come up with a way to make and burn gasoline with zero carbon emissions, electrics will ultimately be the answer to our transportation needs. The grid will evolve. The infrastructure for electric vehicles will gradually be expanded. The vehicle fleet will continue its gradual shift to electrification.
Electric cars don't make economic sense for most owners and they are not all that green when their life cycle environmental impact is considered. But I believe what we are seeing now is the beginning of a shift from IC to electric as our primary transportation solution, for both economic and environmental reasons. I don't think this shift will take place overnight. It will probably be a process that takes decades. But unless we can come up with a way to make and burn gasoline with zero carbon emissions, electrics will ultimately be the answer to our transportation needs. The grid will evolve. The infrastructure for electric vehicles will gradually be expanded. The vehicle fleet will continue its gradual shift to electrification.
03-26-2019, 04:32 AM
#4
I believe Ohio just added or is adding a tax on electric vehicles (and hybrids?) to cover the road use taxes they don't pay 'cuz they're not using liquid fuels.
-- Chuck
-- Chuck
03-26-2019, 04:56 AM
#5
However, some of the comments were becoming political, and the thread was moved to the "Politics" sub-forum.
If you have access to "Politics," you might be interested in reading the thread there.
(My husband and I don't have access to "Politics," nor are we really interested in political discussions much anyway.)
03-26-2019, 05:11 AM
#6
Based on sales, there is no interest in EV's in the US. Except for Tesla sales of all others have dropped rather than grown. People that are buying Tesla IMHO are buying more for the man than the car. And, if you've been following Tesla you know they have some real issues.
03-26-2019, 06:36 AM
#7
You looking backwards not forwards Dave.
I can tell you, my wife would buy one.
I think the market sweet spot will be Charge-able hybrids.
Battery first then gas.
I can tell you, my wife would buy one.
I think the market sweet spot will be Charge-able hybrids.
Battery first then gas.
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03-26-2019, 08:00 AM
#8
Meanwhile, SUVs rule the sales reports of the manufacturers.
03-26-2019, 08:01 AM
#9
Obviously at this point, electrics aren't for everybody. This technology is in its infancy. Electric cars only make sense for certain applications, but the list of those applications is growing as the technology improves.
Electric cars don't make economic sense for most owners and they are not all that green when their life cycle environmental impact is considered. But I believe what we are seeing now is the beginning of a shift from IC to electric as our primary transportation solution, for both economic and environmental reasons. I don't think this shift will take place overnight. It will probably be a process that takes decades. But unless we can come up with a way to make and burn gasoline with zero carbon emissions, electrics will ultimately be the answer to our transportation needs. The grid will evolve. The infrastructure for electric vehicles will gradually be expanded. The vehicle fleet will continue its gradual shift to electrification.
Electric cars don't make economic sense for most owners and they are not all that green when their life cycle environmental impact is considered. But I believe what we are seeing now is the beginning of a shift from IC to electric as our primary transportation solution, for both economic and environmental reasons. I don't think this shift will take place overnight. It will probably be a process that takes decades. But unless we can come up with a way to make and burn gasoline with zero carbon emissions, electrics will ultimately be the answer to our transportation needs. The grid will evolve. The infrastructure for electric vehicles will gradually be expanded. The vehicle fleet will continue its gradual shift to electrification.
03-26-2019, 09:16 AM
#10
I think the electric rate is way off. We pay less than $0.06 per kWh. I don’t think pure battery cars are made for road trips but in town they are a game changer. I would consider a hybrid for long trips.
