i need help/advice
 

my car put down 192.6 hp to the wheels...now thats what a stock s2k puts down right? well mines not stock...
MODS: CAI, big bore tb, megan header, test pipe, catback, hondata intake mani gasket medallion cat back. NO TUNE.

so i was told that maybe my compression is low so today i did a compression test and the results are... #1. 225 #2. 220 #3. 235 #4. 220...thos are all good numers from what i have read...

does any1 have any advice on y my cars power is still at stock?

What do stock S2000s put down under the same conditions on the same dyno at the same shop?

Numbers are just numbers unless you have a baseline to compare them to.

Same w/ the compression. The test equipment, the test technique and the ambient conditions can affect your numbers. Yours are pretty consistent across the board, so they're probably fine.

Those numbers aren't that good. A stock S2k should blow 230 pretty easily. It should also put down 200whp. An older one will put down more, maybe 210whp, after higher miles and carbon buildup.

AFAIK your mods aren't going to make a huge difference, though I would suspect if the motor were healthy, with those mods, you might see an extra 10whp or so. You should definitely be over the 200WHP mark.

I would suspect that #2 and #4 have some slight issues that are accounting for the power. Maybe #1 as well.

You need to do a leakdown test. That will tell you where the power is going.

00-01's and some early 02's had an issue with the oil bolts (piston sprayer bolts). This issue caused an early demise of a bunch of engines, especially if run low on oil. The 02+ can still suffer from low oiling under heavy lateral loads (like road racing) but you've got to be at least a quart low, or more. It also generally happens on #4 first.

The most likely culprit would be slightly bent and/or worn valves. I've seen it more on higher mile engines now. A leakdown will pinpoint this.

Another failure I've seen recently is of the knock sensor. This is usually evidenced by random misfire codes. I suspect it starts with a mild knock detection that the ECU won't flag a CEL for, though.

LMK if you want me to take a look at it. I do all my diagnoses that don't require (much) wrench turning for free.

WRT Marcus' post, I would normally agree, but this is below what I think is right even for a lower dyno reading on a hot day. Those compression numbers also fall outside or are right on my "10 psi comfort zone" I normally consider.

All that said, you've got to crank the engine for almost 10 seconds on each cylinder to be sure you get a good reading. Having all the plugs out and holding the throttle wide open during the test also helps to improve consistency. I'd suggest checking a known good s2k first.

If you've not done a valve adjustment... it would be wise. It rarely fixes things unless some head work was done (without a valve adjust being done) but you might be the outlier, who knows.

well i have had a valve adj...u did it lol...and how much would u charg me to do a leak down test...

more info on car: its an 02 has just under 62k miles always use full syn valvoline oil has ngk spark plugs....anything eles u need to know that might help let me know...

Sorry, seen a lot of cars lately. :)

No charge for a leakdown. They usually give people bad news, I hate charging people for that!

Do you know how much oil it uses every xxxx miles? How often do you check it?

Are you sure the car wasn't boosted before you had it?

my cars is good on oil it burns maybe a half a quart in between oil changes...as far as boosted i doubt it i bought it when it had 36000 miles off a Porsche lot the owner before me traded it in for a Porsche...now im not 100% sure that it wasnt boosted before but when i got the car it was 100% stock...i really mean 100% not even shift knob or after market radio...

so when could u do the test and how long will it take?

192 whp might be a tad low but not too bad. Which dyno did you use, was it calibrated? If you used something like a mustang dyno your 192 is probably really more like 205 whp. The mods you have don't really add much hp if any especially if it's not tuned to take advantage.

The peak number of compression aren't as important as how close they are, within 5 % of the average is good. There are way too many variables to say that your compression should be XXX or whatever.
If all 4 cylinders were low by a little bit, which would be very strange, you'd have lower hp numbers.
Could be the dyno was slightly out of calibration, just being off a little bit could cause readings to be off 10-15 hp easily.
This is just my experience based on BMW tuning, I'm not as up to snuff on s2k's but I think its universal info.
All that said, on a small displacement, high compression motor like ours not having a tune with all of that stuff bolted on it could be your problem.
What was your AF ratio and how was it checked, that'll tell loads more info than our guessing, if the factory computer is defaulting to run rich due to how much you opened up the intake and exhaust than you'll be way rich and down on power, lean it out with a tune and you could find 10-15 hp real quick.
But, again, I'm no expert on these cars.

My comments are based on 20 years experience with Hondas, and 10 years experience w/S2k's. I won't admit to knowing everything but I speak w/confidence on comp test numbers.

That said, the test is only as good as the tester and person conducting the test (i.e. the procedure).

As for dyno numbers, I know they vary from dyno to dyno, and again, the numbers are only as good as the calibration. I may not have seen enough dynos but this would be the lowest numbers I had seen for a stock S2k yet. With the mods I would not expect much whp increase, but I would expect a couple. The cat alone is usually worth a couple of whp on the very top end. I see now you didn't mention what catback, if the header and TP and catback are mismatched that can affect HP.

But I still don't like those comp test numbers.

For this, I'd be available any week day from about 9a to 1p.

the dyno was at jotec i wish i could find the dyno chart but i have miss placed it...also i was gona tune the car but kenny at jotec said i was only gona get like 6 hp from leaning it out and i kinda thought that 6 hp was a waste off 1000+ bucks...so i never got it done

edit: added the catback on the first post.

the car is really pissing me off now i wana drive this motha ****a off a cliff! i just got done raceing 2 other s2ks an ap1 and an ap2 both of them pulled me easy and they have less done to their cars...out of the 3 im am the only one that has gears...as far as i know they both have intake and exhuast and yall know my mods list...just add 4:77 gears! wtf and yes i can ****ing drive and yes i can ****ing shift...a few of the runs i missed 2nd but still got pulled hard every run like my car is stock. this is ****ing bull shit! i did have an extra 200 pounds but i dont think that made that big of a diffrence and REMEMBER I HAVE 4.77 GEARS THEY DONT WTF! some1 please help what should i do right know i wana get rid of this damn car even tho i love it so!

also all of these races were like 10 or 20 rolls i know i would have won from a dig cuz thats where i always prove my worth(where my driving shines) but from a roll my car doesnt have the power or something...and i wana add that the other 2 cars the ap1 and 2 were side by side i was the only car left!

should i pay for a dyno for a day and pull every part off. and add them back on one at a time and see if thats my prob?

Todd i will be comeing to see you one day when im off!

Don't you have large aftermarket wheels? My current wheels KILLED my top end.

he has 17x7.5 and 17x8.5 rotas with 225-45-17 in the front and 255-40-17 in the rear

You defintely need to ignore the street racing from a roll. The 4.77 gears are more likely to hurt than help from a roll. This is because the stock S2K is going to be able to stay in 1st much longer than you, then stay in 2nd much longer than you. I had 4.77's on my '02, and enjoyed it on the street, but I was NEVER competitive against stock geared S2000's again.

Regardign the power, there's a lot of wisdom above, but I didn't see anyone mention that you might just have a bad O2 sensor or clogged air filter. Also, do you have a CEL from your TP, or did you pull your ECU fuse? I always believed that either of those scenarios caused the ECU to run rich.

Oh, and the extra 200 lbs is VERY significant in a drag race. That's like loosing 15 HP!

Maybe calm down and stop street racing...if you want to go faster in a straight line just sell your car and go buy a used Corvette. Less headaches and you're guaranteed to have a faster accelerating car without messing with the headaches to get a few hp here and there.

Nah I think it was the 3 15" subs, in the trunk and the gold rapper chains weighing you down :D

Wow

[QUOTE=gernby,Oct 21 2009, 05:44 AM] You defintely need to ignore the street racing from a roll.

That's not true. Like any mod, there's tradeoffs. In the case of lower gears, you are trading off duration of accelleration for magnitude of accelleration. Up until the point where the driver has to shift to 2nd, the lower gears will be accellerating harder, but after that, the higher geared car will be benefitting. Of course, the higher geared car won't catch up before he has to shift to 2nd, so the advantage quickly goes back to the lower geared car.

Where the roll kills the lower geared car is that you never get the advantage of the launch. A roll from 20 means that the lower geared car will either have to start out in 2nd or have a VERY short stint in 1st, but the higher geared car will have plenty of useable RPMs to take advantage of 1st.

Here's a chart I did for my Lexus to show how my smaller tires would effect my accelleration plot. The green area is where the lower gears have an advantage and the red area is where the stock gears have advantage (based on speed). The circles show how the green and red kind of cancel each other out. The only place where the green isn't cancelled out is the green during first gear. Therefore, you really need to be able to use as much of 1st gear as possible to not loose out. Of course, this doesn't even take shifting time into account.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h2...AccelPlot4.jpg

BTW, the chart above was about a small change in gearing from swapping out 255/40-18's with 255/35-18's. It would be MUCH more exaggerated between 4.10's and 4.77's.

wow thanks a lot guys all of this info calmed me down and give me a place to start looking...the car really had me pissed last night...as far as getting a better straight line car i plan to but i love the s2k and love to race so...i do with what i have : ) but no matter where im racing my car you still wana have all the power that you should have...again thanks a lot guys any other useful input is welcome...

I personally think something is wrong with your car to produce those compression numbers, but that's based on the numbers I've seen other cars blow. I just tested an F22C today that blew 240-250psi!

The additional points above are good- any CEL should be checked first, and make sure plugs and air filter are fine. If you can check the O2 with a scantool that will datalog, do that. You can also easily swap a MAP sensor with someone else, they are known to have issues.

I'll be glad to help with the leakdown which is where I would personally start. I offer it for free because I think it's where everyone should start but not everyone knows how to do it... and it can save a s**tload of troubleshooting time.

nope no cel i have the cel fix for tp...

ive just always seen 4.77 s2k's beat stock geared s2k's from anything under a 40 roll...

if any1 would like to drive my car and give it the good old butt dyno your more than welcome to...

how about a race against me??? :D ive never raced another s except once on the track. i think we should be pretty even.

sure y not...id really like to race another s from a dig to see what happens to see if its the gears that killed me from a roll...

i'll help u figure it out...if you want go to a 1/8 mile track and lemme know wat u run

damn all you guys trying to blow your diffs

after kennedale resurfaced their track i never went back i couldnt stop wheel hopping all the way down the track

stop being a pansy and launch on that mofo :)

i wanna race you on the juice :)

honestly i have spoon headers all the way to catback, and intake. some heavy ass work vs-xx, i dynoed at 217whp,162tq at jotec about 5 months ago

You have an AP2, which tends to put out 10+ HP over the AP1s in stock form. Not really a good comparison.

Ryan

From my experience, I'd say only 5hp on a dynojet, but otherwise correct. And breathing mods seem to be more effective on the F22C, also.

Are your headers wrapped or otherwise insulated?

Where's your CAI pulling air from?

Back when I drove a prelude, a friend of mine also drove one with unwrapped headers and a "cold air intake" drawing in hot air from the engine compartment. His car was making considerably less power than mine (stock).

Reason I say that is because he raced me. :]

ya s2kep3 is one of the s2k's i raced....and ceaser if u go back to the 1st post i have a header as well...its not spoon but still a header...i also dynoed at jotec and thats where i got the 192.6...i guess i will be starting with my compression...

my cai is no longer a cai after the wreck...i need to order another intake right now the intake air is comein from right behind the fans i bet its very hot air...but still my car dynoed low when it was a cai pulling air from behind the right front of bumper...and no i done not have heat wrapped header

sounds like we should organize a race!!!! From the wise words of ricky bobby "If you ain't first your last!!!" Now lets shake and bake!

I think we should organize a DYNO DAY! :)

BTW, the stock header is a good header. I suspect that your header (Megan?) probably isn't as good as the stock one. There were a few cheap aftermarket headers years ago (DC Sports, etc.) that made less power than stock.

im down whats a good central location that will give us a decent group price? plus it will help dohc side for sure if his s is having problems

We need to start another thread for a group dyno day. I have no idea what the best location would be.

how is a dyno day gonna prove anything? its gonna show 192.6 yep just what it said before then what?

In the case that you aren't joking, the point would be that the OP (and everyon else) would get scientifically significant data to show how all the S2000's matched up with other S2000's.

Street racing and independent dyno events don't say much of value.

I think the thread should be locked until he does a leakdown.

actually the only thing the dyno is gonna show is hp, torque and air/fuel ratio if he pays for that. what significant data are you gonna get from that or other s2ks? that his s2k is low on power? we already know that. and seeing is how everyone is gonna have different mods everyone is gonna put down different numbers. unless there are 2 or 3 other ap1s with the same mods as james to see what his does against there's. just like marcucci said a leakdown is whats needed right now.

Oh ... come on! We can eventually solve this problem through speculation!

I think he needs a higher temp thermostat. ;)

I like the way you think! :thumbup:

It has to be the muffler bearings.

ok we are no longer bein helpful...

might be the 710 fluid!!

we'll do a pull james.. soon... you always hit me up after i'm home and started drinkin... haha

how about tonight?