Jel

I have had a Mahle filter for the last 3,000+ miles. Obviously I'll get it changed asap but it must be said they are used extensively in German marques.

Sounds like there may have been a bad batch, which could have happened to any make, genuine or otherwise.

AquilaEagle

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=192750

gaddafi

'Mahle' sounds faster than 'Honda?'

MB

It will either be:

Incorrect fitting (not enough torque applied)
Incorrect torque specified by manufacturer (not enough torque advised)
Poor design (too few threads or bad thread form)

Or a combination.

THis has happened on many OEM ones too, but having 2 or 3 fail on this brand is quite worrying given the low volumes in circulation.

Jamie - I hadn't seen that by J's before. Group buy anyone? I would bet they made that after their race car went bang Video of it on You Tube.

They are

fluffyninja

Can I just confirm the actual failure mode was that it came loose?
Funster says it's an oil filter failure and a lot of people have started saying it's come loose but I haven't specifically heard that from Funster.
For example:
Has it come loose?
Has the body come uncrimped from the mounting face?
Has the body split?

If it has come off completely or unwound a significant amount then I'm very scared (but not surprised) how little Honda Techs know about engines.

Oil is drawn from the pan through a course strainer (to avoid particles damaging the pump) to the oil pump. The oil pump then forces it into the galleries through to the oil filter. It then goes through the filter and back into the galleries to feed the bearings. If it can be circulated still through the engine what's the point of having the filter in the first place!!!

The only time unfiltered oil goes through the engine is if you get a completely blocked oil filter. They have a bypass built into the filter. If the pressure across them is too great it opens to allow unfiltered oil through. The premise is that unfiltered oil getting to the bearings is better than no oil at all. This is why you change the filters when you change the oil.

As soon as the filters gone you've lost oil pressure in the engine (unless there's still enough of a connection to feed some to the engine). From then you've only got as long as oil remains in the bearings themselves till they run dry to get the engine stopped since there's no more oil supply.

Since the F20C also uses squirt jets from the galleries to lubricate the bores you'll have also lost piston lubrication at the same time so possible damage there as well as the main and rod bearings

Dembo

He didn't say that it came loose. FWIW I had a Honda one that leaked, and that was on pleanty tight enough.

Nick Graves

There's too much confusion in this thread:

Honda is usually pretty good with modifications; they will often honour warranties so long as the after-market part didn't cause the failure.

In this case, they probably would be right to say you should have stuck to an OEM filter, since it is a bit critical to the oil flow. But OK, too late.

Now there IS a known issue with OEM filters self-unscrewing, unless really tight.

Now if the Mahle item blew open (unlikely) you'd have a claim against Mahle for dodgy manufacture.

If it unscrewed itself, they'll probably try to blame poor Chris. Even if their instructions weren't explicit about the S2000's odd installation procedure, they'll most likely try to pass the buck & say he didn't tighten it sufficiently. I'm unsure how one would PROVE it was tightened in accordance with the instructions. Incorrect instructions pushes it back towards Mahle.

The oil warning light is an 'idiot light' so at VTEC rpm, I'd consider damage likely, unless you threw the clutch very quickly indeed.

It's an unpleasant situation all around and I wish both parties a good outcome.

fluffyninja

If an OEM filter had been fitted by a Honda dealer it'd be a very simple case of getting them to repair any damage through warranty.

However they can't be held responsible for damage caused by a part they don't endorse and didn't fit.

Depending on what Mahle's recommendation for the part is you may not have a claim against them either. If they don't explicitly say suitable for the S2000 then they'd just come back with "well we never said it was suitable for this"

To claim against the fitter of the part you'd probably have to have evidence that you were specifically mis-sold the part or there was negligence in the fitting. If you knew and agreed to the part being fitted then it'd probably come down to "well you agreed to them fitting the wrong part"

also with the oil pressure switch comment above. The pressure switch has to be set lower than the pressure needed at engine idle. Therefore if it's coming on when you've the engine at higher than idle speeds theres a reasonable to good chance it's terminal

LTB

Didn't the EU recently rule that you don't have to go to a main dealer and use OEM products to keep a warranty valid, provided that the work is carried out to the same standard and that the parts of equal or better quality ?

If that's the case then a warranty claim may still be on the cards, although it might mean a bit of a fight.

fluffyninja

I'm not exactly sure of the ruling but so long as the work is still carried out to the recommended maintenance practices then yes the work should still be covered by the warranty. However you have to have chapter and verse to prove the work was done correctly. All the receipts showing sourcing of parts, invoices from the companies involved etc.

I suspect that OEM parts still have to be used since those are the only ones that the manufacturer has validated on their product. I stand to be corrected on that since, as I say, I'm not too familiar with the actual wording.

In this case however a part has failed that wasn't an OEM part and wasn't fitted by a Honda dealer so they'll have an awful lot of evidence to prove that the work wasn't done to the same standard.