Newbie looking for advise
01-09-2017, 10:52 AM
#1
Newbie looking for advise
Hi all I'm the market for a s2000. I'm wanting to use the car for track use mainly and the odd road trip. I'm new to s2000,s and don't really no loads about them. I have heard the the 1st gen cars are a lot more rawer and have a mechanical throttle, And the 2nd gen cars are more progressive and refined. I'm ready to buy one but need some advice 1st. Regards Aaron
01-09-2017, 11:25 AM
#2
Being a track car, if you're going to uprate most of the suspension then it doesn't really make any difference but if leaving the suspension stock then yes there will be a handling difference between the two. Depends really what your future plans are, budget etc. I was in exactly the same position a week ago and went with an Ap1 based on condition, mileage, history & colour, rather than year as I will be uprating most of the suspension over time anyway.
01-09-2017, 11:42 AM
#3
Hi Aaron, welcome to the forum.
There's a small amount to know about the S2000 before purchasing. Generally, I would follow rules applied to buying any vehicle but main areas to question or check yourself in regards to the S2000, would be:
• the maintenance of suspension and geometry bolts which can prove costly to 'free' once seized.
• general service history, mainly oil/filter changes, diff fluid, gear box.
• valve clearances, something which many vehicles will not have checked. Not expensive to have Honda or a specialist check and adjust (approx £100)
•TCT (timing chain tensioner), known to become 'noisey' from various mileages. Refurbishment, OEM replacement or durable aftermarket options are available.
• tyres, check for uneven wear and mismatched brands or sizes, can cause 'unstable' handling.
• roof condition, known to wear at both shoulder sides and along the top of side windows. Replacements can be costly depending on supplier and material.
Personally, if you drive respectfully you shouldn't have any issues with a prefacelift model. They are known to be more 'raw' and changes were made to later models to 'soften' suspension and improve driver comforts.
I would drive both and see which you prefer. For track driving I have a 2001 model and find it great. I also use it on the road. Costs of earlier models are around 5-7k on average with facelift models climbing to 13k+.
My one piece lf advice would be to purchase one from this site (if available) or do a lot of research and drive several models. If you don't feel happy, walk away.
There's a small amount to know about the S2000 before purchasing. Generally, I would follow rules applied to buying any vehicle but main areas to question or check yourself in regards to the S2000, would be:
• the maintenance of suspension and geometry bolts which can prove costly to 'free' once seized.
• general service history, mainly oil/filter changes, diff fluid, gear box.
• valve clearances, something which many vehicles will not have checked. Not expensive to have Honda or a specialist check and adjust (approx £100)
•TCT (timing chain tensioner), known to become 'noisey' from various mileages. Refurbishment, OEM replacement or durable aftermarket options are available.
• tyres, check for uneven wear and mismatched brands or sizes, can cause 'unstable' handling.
• roof condition, known to wear at both shoulder sides and along the top of side windows. Replacements can be costly depending on supplier and material.
Personally, if you drive respectfully you shouldn't have any issues with a prefacelift model. They are known to be more 'raw' and changes were made to later models to 'soften' suspension and improve driver comforts.
I would drive both and see which you prefer. For track driving I have a 2001 model and find it great. I also use it on the road. Costs of earlier models are around 5-7k on average with facelift models climbing to 13k+.
My one piece lf advice would be to purchase one from this site (if available) or do a lot of research and drive several models. If you don't feel happy, walk away.
01-17-2017, 01:01 AM
#5
Hi Aaron,
I was in the same boat as you and I did months of research on here and You tube before finally settling on a MY2004-2005 facelift.
The reason I chose this model year was as follows:
1. The facelift cars had all the engine revisions that reduced the oil consumption and valvetrain issues of the earlier cars.
2. The MY2004-2005 are still on a throttle cable, so although requiring a standalone ECU to tune (where the Drive By Wire cars can be "reflashed" for less money), they are acknowledged as having a better throttle feel (as it is actually still mechanically connected to the peddle).
3. The facelift cars have revised and strengthened suspension pick-up points which eliminates the original anti-dive geometry that Honda built in on the first generation cars. This greatly reduces the on-limit snap oversteer issues of the earlier cars. The spring rates were increased and the ARB rates dropped on the 2002-2003 cars in an attempt to make them less "snappy", but it wasn't until the facelift cars received the revised pick-up points and eliminated the anti-dive geometry that the car stopped trying to spin backwards through a hedge
.
4. On the facelift cars the front spring rates are increased (ARB remains same as the 2002-2003 cars) and the rear suspension and ARBs are softened (as the rear end grip is increased with the tyres), not only does this make the cars more progressive handling at the limit, combined with the larger wheels and tyres, it makes them faster on track (not anecdotal, but in back to back tests with professional drivers - see the Youtube video below).
5. The 17" wheels and tyres not only provide more grip, but combined with the softer springs and dampers give a lovely progressive break-away, which means they slide more naturally and are actually lighter than the earlier cars 16" wheels and tyres
!
6. Subjectively I think the facelift cars look nicer and I like the V1 17" wheels better than all of the other iterations (so much so, that I won't change them).
You will see that many early owners will say that fitting larger wheels and tyres will help, but when you watch the video, although it does knock 0.5 seconds off the lap, the handling is still not as balanced as the facelift cars. They also put the less grippier early wheels and tyres on the facelift car and it drifted easily and controllably.
Obviously the people with the earlier cars will (naturally) defend them to the hilt, but the fact remains the facelift cars are the better bet on road and track.
Do your research wisely and you should be able to pick what is best (for you) - I could have bought any model and after 6 months of research I chose the MY2004-2005 car.
I am absolutely loving it, it's painfully slow (compared to what I am used to), but still SO much fun
.
When you do buy one, do post up, as there are some mods that I would consider imperative before you take it out on track (again discovered from my 6 months of research).
I was in the same boat as you and I did months of research on here and You tube before finally settling on a MY2004-2005 facelift.
The reason I chose this model year was as follows:
1. The facelift cars had all the engine revisions that reduced the oil consumption and valvetrain issues of the earlier cars.
2. The MY2004-2005 are still on a throttle cable, so although requiring a standalone ECU to tune (where the Drive By Wire cars can be "reflashed" for less money), they are acknowledged as having a better throttle feel (as it is actually still mechanically connected to the peddle).
3. The facelift cars have revised and strengthened suspension pick-up points which eliminates the original anti-dive geometry that Honda built in on the first generation cars. This greatly reduces the on-limit snap oversteer issues of the earlier cars. The spring rates were increased and the ARB rates dropped on the 2002-2003 cars in an attempt to make them less "snappy", but it wasn't until the facelift cars received the revised pick-up points and eliminated the anti-dive geometry that the car stopped trying to spin backwards through a hedge
. 4. On the facelift cars the front spring rates are increased (ARB remains same as the 2002-2003 cars) and the rear suspension and ARBs are softened (as the rear end grip is increased with the tyres), not only does this make the cars more progressive handling at the limit, combined with the larger wheels and tyres, it makes them faster on track (not anecdotal, but in back to back tests with professional drivers - see the Youtube video below).
5. The 17" wheels and tyres not only provide more grip, but combined with the softer springs and dampers give a lovely progressive break-away, which means they slide more naturally and are actually lighter than the earlier cars 16" wheels and tyres
!6. Subjectively I think the facelift cars look nicer and I like the V1 17" wheels better than all of the other iterations (so much so, that I won't change them).
You will see that many early owners will say that fitting larger wheels and tyres will help, but when you watch the video, although it does knock 0.5 seconds off the lap, the handling is still not as balanced as the facelift cars. They also put the less grippier early wheels and tyres on the facelift car and it drifted easily and controllably.
Obviously the people with the earlier cars will (naturally) defend them to the hilt, but the fact remains the facelift cars are the better bet on road and track.
Do your research wisely and you should be able to pick what is best (for you) - I could have bought any model and after 6 months of research I chose the MY2004-2005 car.
I am absolutely loving it, it's painfully slow (compared to what I am used to), but still SO much fun
.When you do buy one, do post up, as there are some mods that I would consider imperative before you take it out on track (again discovered from my 6 months of research).
01-17-2017, 01:21 AM
#6
UK Moderator
Hi Aaron,
2. The MY2004-2005 are still on a throttle cable, so although requiring a standalone ECU to tune (where the Drive By Wire cars can be "reflashed" for less money), they are acknowledged as having a better throttle feel (as it is actually still mechanically connected to the peddle).
5. The 17" wheels and tyres not only provide more grip, but combined with the softer springs and dampers give a lovely progressive break-away, which means they slide more naturally and are actually lighter than the earlier cars 16" wheels and tyres !
2. The MY2004-2005 are still on a throttle cable, so although requiring a standalone ECU to tune (where the Drive By Wire cars can be "reflashed" for less money), they are acknowledged as having a better throttle feel (as it is actually still mechanically connected to the peddle).
5. The 17" wheels and tyres not only provide more grip, but combined with the softer springs and dampers give a lovely progressive break-away, which means they slide more naturally and are actually lighter than the earlier cars 16" wheels and tyres
!The 17"wheels and tyres are heavier than the 16s.
Wheels
Front; 7.9kg vs 8.0kg
Rear: 8.4kg vs 9.3kg
Tyres (Toyo Versadas as they provide comparable weights)
Front; 9.5kg vs 9.5kg
Rear: 9.5kg vs 10kg
Not much difference in the tyres but a reasonable one in the wheels
FWIW the MY08 wheels are 8.7kg and 9.7kg respectively
01-17-2017, 01:33 AM
#7
See video above (3.27), they weighed the wheels and tyres in at 39.6kg (one front and one rear) for the 17s and 39.9kg for the 16s (with the OEM tyres). Making the 17s a whole 0.6kg lighter for a set.....
Trending Topics
01-17-2017, 02:27 AM
#8
UK Moderator
Maybe the RE050s are much lighter than the S-02s or they didn't remove balancing weights, or something?
01-17-2017, 02:57 AM
#9
As you will see when you get home, they didn't separate the tyres from the wheels, they just removed the combined wheel and tyre off car and put them on the scales. Obviously I can only comment on the ones they weighed, but I would imagine that there will be some variances in tyre weights due to construction differences, with the wheels (hopefully) remaining consistent.
01-17-2017, 03:06 AM
#10
UK Moderator
As you will see when you get home, they didn't separate the tyres from the wheels, they just removed the combined wheel and tyre off car and put them on the scales. Obviously I can only comment on the ones they weighed, but I would imagine that there will be some variances in tyre weights due to construction differences, with the wheels (hopefully) remaining consistent.
Maybe the 17s were nitrogen filled?
Here's a link to the MY08 (aka CR) wheels https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-cr...s-f-r-1009024/
Other useful links:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/wheels-t...weight-555538/
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/wheels-t...p2v1-s-858569/
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/wheels-t...weight-848659/
One of those has the 17" rear tyre as 26lbs, which compares with my 22lbs, so I suspect there is a big difference in tyre weights and the most likely cause.
Useful link to the RE050 weights:
F: 22lbs
R: 26lbs
S-O2 weights for the Porsche spec link:
F: 21lbs
R: 26lbs
A very strange result in the video, I'd say.
I think a weigh-in session at Daytona Autos is in order
Last edited by lovegroova; 01-17-2017 at 03:21 AM.