Pre- facelift or save up for early facelift
 

Just joined the Forum, although Ive been lurking a while. I have a quick question I need some help with.

I have decided on an S2000 as a 3rd car for weekends etc. I don't want to spend more than £5k-£6k and have found some really nice 1 owner pre-facelift to look at. Every review Ive read warns about the wayward handling etc and how this was (kind of) sorted in the facelift - how much of this should I believe and should it be a concern for me at all - I doubt the car will see rain or track days so is this relevant to me at all ? Would a decent set of dampers and/or geo set up help.

Or am i better off saving up for an early facelift car ?

I know you guys can speak from experience so all contributions appreciated. :thumbup:

Cheers

Brad

Welcome!

I came from a pre-facelift and after 4 years went to a facelift car and to be honest, the handling isn't that wayward, so don't let that fool you. The early cars aren't going to kill you, priovided you dont drive like a weapon.

The main thing to factor in to the purchase is the alignment bushes - if they are siezed then you are looking at £££ to sort out unless you are a mechanic or have a tame one to hand.

It really depends what you are after - there are some really good examples of pre-facelifts out there and some bad ones, but the same could be said of the facelift cars.

The biggest things for me where the more modern look of the facelift cars, the bigger wheels (17" up from the 16" of the earlier cars) and also the fact that the facelift cars have a non oil burning engine.

Oh yeah, before you get flamed, there is no AP2 in the Uk - all cars are AP1. People on here refere to the cars as either <MY03 or MY04+ (or pre facelift / facelift)

Hope this helps

Cheers Sound_Wave - and original post amended accordingly....... :bow:

The only reason I wanted a facelift was that with the pre-facelift there was a potential for someone to have forgotten to check the oil at some point in it's life (even if it was only once) - the later F20C2 apparently burns less oil so has less likelihood of suffering the same.

With regards to the handling being "safer" - If you check out eBay there are a lot of crashed facelifts on there, so if you do get a facelift don't assume you can drive like a loon because you have the "safe" version :)

I had an 02 car for just over 4 years and now have an 04. It's hard to judge objectively as the new car has half the mileage of the old one, but... On balance I think I prefer the new one in the looks department but can't really comment on the handling as I need to sort the geo out and I'm driving like a pensioner ATM ;)

HTH

It's worth noting that from MY02 (ie pre face lift!) the plastic rear window was replaced with a glass one. :thumbup:

I had a friends 04 for a week and my 00 at the same time. I was toying with buying their car and there's a thread on here somewhere.

The 04 is a nicer place to be, quieter, more comfortable and more refined. A far superior daily driver and if that's what mine was used for I would've bought the 04.

However on a b-road blast I found the 04 suspension to wallow at the back end and it really took the edge off the car. As mine is a third car used for fun and the odd weekend away I stuck with my 2000 car. I just preferred the way it drove.

My advice is to give them both a decent test drive. There's bound to be some for sale at a dealers somewhere near you.

My advice... Buy one you can afford and then spend the extra money on toys for it!
And don't forget to look on the meets page as we are really nice and friendly and will like to see the beast when you get it.

:)

Minvo.

The 17" wheels to a large extent calm some of the waywardness (assuming they're the correct wheels!) of the early cars. But for the cost, you might as well go for the later car. A lot was down to the unforgiving (but exciting) nature of the discontinued original tyres.

There is a trade-off that you lose the 'rawness' of the original car.

Suspension braces also make the breakaway point much clearer, for a few hundred quid.

I suppose ultimately, it's buy the best example you find.

At that sort of budget, I'd be more bothered about getting the best one you can. If you were to restrict yourself to 04+ models, you may fond yourself looking for a longer time to find a decent, well looked after one. Oh, try to come along to a meet if you can. That way there will be loads of pre and post facelifts you can look at.

Agree with this advice. I would get the glass rear screen rather than plastic from what i have read on this forum.

Yes, the plastic screen is crap. Avoid.

I've been in a few of the newer ones, and I've always been stuck by the wallowy suspension.

Of course you can put the 17s on the older car, which improves the predictability of the handling. And you could fit coilovers and fiddle with the geo of a newer car to make it less of a barge.

You could also retrofit the coilovers/ARBs off one of the '09s which the owner has finally scrapped having lost patience with it, which were far closer to the original rates.

Jeez this is getting confusing.... Swmbo prefers the facelift looks and i do like a tinker so some suspension mods might be the way forward.

Thanks for all the help fellas. ok if i post some links to cars i find for your opinions ??

Go with the facelift. It looks so much better and a big plus is the added safety of the rear LED lights.

Hi Brad, I was in exactly the same situation as you when looking for my S, originally I was looking for a 2002-ish model for around the £5k mark private sale, but eventually decided to up my budget and go for a facelift model from a private dealership, and I'm SOOO glad I did.

Every difference seems to be an improvement, and although the bumper differences are very subtle I think the facelift version is much better looking, can't quite work out why though! The 17 inch wheels look 10x better IMHO, as does the rear end with the LED lights (reversing light is useless tho).

I would say go for a 55 plate at the latest, after that it goes into the £470 tax bracket if I remember rightly, and 06 has the DBW/VSA which may or may not be a good thing, depending on your standpoint.

Facelifts do look much better, I agree. But they're only just coming into £6k money, so finding a decent one that has bags of history and has been well maintained could take a while. If you can a decent facelift for the budget then go for it, but I'd either be looking for the best example whether it be pre or post facelift - or up the budget by another ~£500-£1000.

Just my 2 pence of course :)

If its going to be your 3rd car for weekend fun only. Then I would just get the one with the best alignment bolts you can afford. On a second note, Pre facelifts may not be as quiet and comfortable as some people have commented, but with a good geo, either car will be great fun for what you want.

Mine is a MY99 on coilovers and is my daily driver. Sure it's not exactly a luxurious place to be sometimes, but I certainly "know" I'm in a sportscar every morning as I drive to work! :-D

How expensive is sorting the allignment bolts out!? Mine's an 55 plate and I need to get my geometry sorted soon because the fronts are wearing unevenly. If the bolts are seized then what am I look at it costing!?

Oh and OP, get a facelift they look soo much better! Try and get one with the front splitter too ;) Look lovely and mean! (Once you have owned one for a while and seen lots of pictures on here you will see the difference between the two models light and dya and you will be glad you got a facelift! ;) )

Be wary of some of the reviews and attendant generalisations you may have read, OP:

Some older ones burn oil - some (mine) don't burn a drop.

The handling characteristics that you are far more likely to notice are poor geo, poor tyres, tyre-pressure differences - it's a sensitive car in either set but a fabulous drive in either set-up if set-up well.

Bushes seize at any age - by no means confined to older cars.

Looks are subjective - I prefer newer, but it's relative - I still love the older.

Go for the best car you can regardless of vintage.

IMHO, the best car isn't necessarily the newest or lowest mileage, or even "Honda-est" service history (though they are factors) - it's about quality of ownership.

It's about the current owner understanding what's important in these cars (and the buying guide in the Tech FAQ is a great source of info for that) and being able to show and articulate to you that this one is a good one against those critical measures.

If it's an older car that looks and feels properly loved - that's the one I'd go for every time.

As others have said - buy the best you can regardless of facelift or not. I was in a similar situation and I found one that was loved and looked after by two owners in the same family. It was not a facelift and was under my budget but it felt 'tight' and as fresh as the facelift I drove. I personally prefer the front end of the pre facelift with the oem lip on, the facelift lip has never looked right to me.

End of the day its still an S2000 which ever one you get https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/public/st...t/thumbsup.gif

There's a section I wrote in the Technical FAQ about this.

Depends on how many are seized but if you're getting someone else to do it ~ £1k-£2k

You also have to decide if you're going poly bush/Mugen or Spoon rubber or buying new arms from Honda (arms are £400 plus bolts).

It's not a cheap job and best to find one that has already had the work done if you can.

:slap: oi!! The facelift lip looks sawesome!!!

That said, I do agree (somewhat) with Jon - the <MY04 with an oem lip and a small reg plate does look good.

Thanks for all the comments and sound advice. I couldn't agree more that the way its been looked after is so important - looks wise there isnt much in it for me but her indoors prefers the facelift.

Ive made buying mistakes in the past by assuming 1 owner/low mileage = looked after, so wont be going down that road again.

I'll keep you posted !

Thanks again - great Forum !!!!! :D

Oh my! I hope mine are not seized then!

The original (without all the nasty aresole-can silver spray bling all over it)looks far better!

You is all wrong.

This was always going to end up in a debate where the prefacelift owners defend their oil burning old fashioned rustbuckets and the facelift owners defend their refined modern comfortable and better looking cars with all the errors ironed out... :tipwink:

:iagree: I really liked my JDM MY00 because it was so raw. My 07 S feels like it has more whp (maybe due to sticking rear caliper on my old one :p), it's better to drive and it looks better IMO.

Have to say if I were buying one as a toy i would go for an 02/03 car and put facelift wheels on and polybush it. As mine is a dd I wanted the newest pre 06 I could find.

Except that mine is not an oil burning, rustbucket :p The oil is golden, no rust and pampered in the garage over the winter with just over 14K miles , just like the way it was treated by the previous owner ;)

:stupid:

:D Pre facelift bought by those peasants without enough cash to own the newer better version. Don't concern yourself with cost enjoy the bling. :D

Better?

It seems that those facelift owners can't spell either. Do you want to be lumped in with the thickies? ;)

Per Vert - the famous Franco-Swedish pawn film director?

Just jealous because they weren't early adopters & had to put up with the marketing-driven version & not the pur sang?

My recent experiences would suggest you're better off going for a newer car even though the Post -04 are all horrid and blingy.

This week I've had to replace the fuel tank (and I'm not the only one lately), the rear brake pipes (again, this is becoming more and more common) and a brake cable - all down to corrosion on an 11 year old car that's been kept garaged.

Add those toother things I've had done in the last 18 months - new suspension arms front and rear (could have polybushed but you get the idea), brake callipers, cat heat shields, alternator, starter motor, clutch and cat and it all adds up.

My car leads an easy life most of the time, has a full service history and so on and most of the above is simply down to old age/high mileage (mine's on 117k at present) but you do need to be careful.

Pre facelift (Hardcore original) not the softer poofy facelifted versions with cock and balls VDU. :tipwink:

Get an 08 or 09 :thumbup:

I'm led to believe has similar suspension set up to the early ( hardcore ) car's :tipwink:

Then worry about wether the engine's going to self destruct every time you drive it :p

:thumbup: or mine. So true previous ownership is the key when deciding like has the geo been done by a respected company etc regardless of whether its a pre or post facelift. A neglected s2k is a good place to start ridding you of your hard earned ;)

:scratch: Now where does that leave me as we have both, Ang's car is good to look at and great to drive :D , mine is good to look at and f@#king great to drive :LOL:

If a little moist https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/public/st...fault/cool.gif

Mine is an 02 with everything and more on a 04+ :)
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/uploads/g...71_1223335.png


https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/uploads/g...71_1369933.png


Best of both worlds :)

As someone who bought his S2k recently, the best thing I can say is to just totally and utterly ignore what year the car is - it makes next to no difference. What really matters is what condition the car is in. A good condition 2000 car will feel far better to drive than a poorly maintained 2005 car for example. Go to look at many cars, drive them all, then pick the one that has the best history and feels the best.... dont let the year put you off. I would buy a 2002 car with 100k on the clock from a guy who knows the car inside out and has cared for it over a 2004 car from an owner who isnt an enthusiast any day of the week.

I've not driven a Facelift S2000 to compare to mine, don't let people fob you off and say prefacelifts lethal, unpredictable etc, I drove the most dull, lethargic, performance vauxhall astra coupe turbo, Looked at S's & jumped into the S and felt like I was at home, I was looking at facelifts but I really liked this one, nice, lively and involving and predictable.

Go out, drive one, regardless of the year, facelift or not, and chose what you feel is right, and the best you can afford.

Cheers fellas - Im putting some time aside this week to get some test drives organised - pre and facelift.

I'll let you how how it goes.

Whatever your budget is keep a 500 contingency sum back for immediate repairs like bushes or brake calipers. Unless you have proof they have just been done they will need doing sooner or later. Probably sooner

...and if you don't have them to fix then you can get a nice induction kit with some of the £500 :)

That is a nice car. I bet the black seats make the car much nicer to look at.