R26.R v S2000 v Cooper S Trackday Lap
05-06-2009, 11:10 AM
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R26.R v S2000 v Cooper S Trackday Lap
Hello all,
as an ex S2000 owner of about a year ago I thought you might be interested in a little trackday lap comparison video I put together - it seems to have generated some debate on the Italian S2000 club so thought I would pop it on here too. I ran an S2000 for about a year as my trackday and weekend fun car and it was brilliant - it would still be mine if the Mitsi dealer hadn't been giving away an Evo IX MR360!
Anyway, cutting to the chase, I am currently running a Megane R26.R as my trackday toy and thought I would put together a video comparing a typical trackday lap at Llandow in the R26.R, S2000 and Cooper S.
R26.R, S2000 & Cooper S Lap Comparison Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PdYeN0xUHk
I'm far from knocking the S2000 with this video - it was a superb car on this little circiut only ever matched by a Supercharged Clio and slightly outclassed by the odd Exige/Elise as you might expect during my ownership.
To keep things in perspective all the laps were driven by me on dry days (not the same day tho). The R26.R is running on Toyo R888's, while the S2000 is on road Potenza RE050's with the Mini on Dunlop Runflats. The tyres undoubtedly make a big difference to the lap times. Also the R26.R is a track special so direct comparison with either the Mini or the S2000 is a little unfair - spec them in the same way and it might be very different!
Fair amount of body roll on the standard S2000 suspension - confident through the twisties all the same.
Without doubt the S2000 has the best balance of the 3 but can't match the ability of the Megane to hang on to the apex in the slower corners. The VTEC punch on the straights is also stronger than the turbo'd Megane - on longer straights the S would gain some ground over 100mph. The S2000 would also make a much better all round car choice, it's a much better compromise between road and track. The stripped out Reno with its limited sound proofing, 6 point harnesses and plastic rear windows would be hard to live with everyday.
While on the Road the Mini might match the S2000 for pace on track it is flawed - scrabbling away the power with loads of wheelspin or an over active ESP system if you leave it switched on.
As for the R26.R well it does what it was designed for very well, you can feel the lack of weight in the way it corners, the diff pulls the nose to the apex with ruthless efficiency!
Yes but it's a Renault....I had the same reservations about buying a French car, (it was a leap of faith based on the awesome press reviews) but so far one that has been well rewarded. If you get a chance for a go in one I track you might well be surprised just how well resolved they are.
as an ex S2000 owner of about a year ago I thought you might be interested in a little trackday lap comparison video I put together - it seems to have generated some debate on the Italian S2000 club so thought I would pop it on here too. I ran an S2000 for about a year as my trackday and weekend fun car and it was brilliant - it would still be mine if the Mitsi dealer hadn't been giving away an Evo IX MR360!
Anyway, cutting to the chase, I am currently running a Megane R26.R as my trackday toy and thought I would put together a video comparing a typical trackday lap at Llandow in the R26.R, S2000 and Cooper S.
R26.R, S2000 & Cooper S Lap Comparison Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PdYeN0xUHk
I'm far from knocking the S2000 with this video - it was a superb car on this little circiut only ever matched by a Supercharged Clio and slightly outclassed by the odd Exige/Elise as you might expect during my ownership.
To keep things in perspective all the laps were driven by me on dry days (not the same day tho). The R26.R is running on Toyo R888's, while the S2000 is on road Potenza RE050's with the Mini on Dunlop Runflats. The tyres undoubtedly make a big difference to the lap times. Also the R26.R is a track special so direct comparison with either the Mini or the S2000 is a little unfair - spec them in the same way and it might be very different!
Fair amount of body roll on the standard S2000 suspension - confident through the twisties all the same.
Without doubt the S2000 has the best balance of the 3 but can't match the ability of the Megane to hang on to the apex in the slower corners. The VTEC punch on the straights is also stronger than the turbo'd Megane - on longer straights the S would gain some ground over 100mph. The S2000 would also make a much better all round car choice, it's a much better compromise between road and track. The stripped out Reno with its limited sound proofing, 6 point harnesses and plastic rear windows would be hard to live with everyday.
While on the Road the Mini might match the S2000 for pace on track it is flawed - scrabbling away the power with loads of wheelspin or an over active ESP system if you leave it switched on.
As for the R26.R well it does what it was designed for very well, you can feel the lack of weight in the way it corners, the diff pulls the nose to the apex with ruthless efficiency!
Yes but it's a Renault....I had the same reservations about buying a French car, (it was a leap of faith based on the awesome press reviews) but so far one that has been well rewarded. If you get a chance for a go in one I track you might well be surprised just how well resolved they are.
05-06-2009, 12:42 PM
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How do you buy an R26.R?? i never see any for sale.
I think it's a great bit of kit, and hats of to Renault for doing it!
Can't see the vids due to firewalls but will look when i'm home
I think it's a great bit of kit, and hats of to Renault for doing it!
Can't see the vids due to firewalls but will look when i'm home
05-06-2009, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MB,May 6 2009, 12:42 PM
How do you buy an R26.R?? i never see any for sale.
I think it's a great bit of kit, and hats of to Renault for doing it!
Can't see the vids due to firewalls but will look when i'm home
I think it's a great bit of kit, and hats of to Renault for doing it!
Can't see the vids due to firewalls but will look when i'm home
It really is as good as the press say, if you see it as an out of the box track special.
Once I get some decent footage I'm going to do an R26R/Evo 360/S2000/Cooper S comparison at a couple of tracks.
Hope you are still loving the Evo - you have a great fast fleet there!!
05-06-2009, 02:02 PM
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Good video.
It might have been a different story if all the cars had been on similar rubber!
I have changed to TOYOs on my S and the difference from the Potenza is amazing. It feels much more planted in fast corners.
It might have been a different story if all the cars had been on similar rubber!
I have changed to TOYOs on my S and the difference from the Potenza is amazing. It feels much more planted in fast corners.
05-06-2009, 02:05 PM
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Hi Fatbloke,
I remember you coming across to S2000 ownership about the same time as I was duelling with the GDI Omex'd Clio last year.
All the points you raise are fair - believe me reliability is my biggest concern but so far so good. I read the horror stories on the Renault sites and having owned a few late 90's 306 GTi-6's, put to use on the 'ring before it was as busy as today, have also suffered the french car issues before. I don't tend to hold on to cars too long so doubt I will experience too much of this - fingers crossed.
Is the R26R fun - (I can't compare to an R26 as I have never driven one) well in my opinion yes, massively. I grin as much in this as I did in my first Westfield and frankly I find it more fun, at more reasonable speeds than the Evo.
There are many things that should be wrong - it's FWD for a start - but as you say the clever diff is simply amazing, a true apex hunter. The R inspires confidence to really press on. The ASR system hardly ever interferes when on - even when being very silly on roundabouts - I haven't experienced a hot hatch with such a mobile (and of course huge!) rear end for a long time. With the ASR off it will truly dance - you really can feel movement of the car and limit of grip through the wheel like a Caterham or 90's unassisted hot hatch. How they have managed that I have no idea. Ooh and a downside I didn't mention is that clever diff can chew up the front left R888 in less than 100 miles on track...eek.
As for the on track experience - imo it's adrenaline filled. You are right that if covers mistakes and over enthusiasm, yet at the same time when you hook up a good lap and really call on the car to deliver it does.
The S2000 was great fun and utterly reliable (OEM brakes aside) the Meg is a very different experience. I count myself lucky to have experienced both and would be happy with either - but the Mini is best left for the road!
I remember you coming across to S2000 ownership about the same time as I was duelling with the GDI Omex'd Clio last year.
All the points you raise are fair - believe me reliability is my biggest concern but so far so good. I read the horror stories on the Renault sites and having owned a few late 90's 306 GTi-6's, put to use on the 'ring before it was as busy as today, have also suffered the french car issues before. I don't tend to hold on to cars too long so doubt I will experience too much of this - fingers crossed.
Is the R26R fun - (I can't compare to an R26 as I have never driven one) well in my opinion yes, massively. I grin as much in this as I did in my first Westfield and frankly I find it more fun, at more reasonable speeds than the Evo.
There are many things that should be wrong - it's FWD for a start - but as you say the clever diff is simply amazing, a true apex hunter. The R inspires confidence to really press on. The ASR system hardly ever interferes when on - even when being very silly on roundabouts - I haven't experienced a hot hatch with such a mobile (and of course huge!) rear end for a long time. With the ASR off it will truly dance - you really can feel movement of the car and limit of grip through the wheel like a Caterham or 90's unassisted hot hatch. How they have managed that I have no idea. Ooh and a downside I didn't mention is that clever diff can chew up the front left R888 in less than 100 miles on track...eek.
As for the on track experience - imo it's adrenaline filled. You are right that if covers mistakes and over enthusiasm, yet at the same time when you hook up a good lap and really call on the car to deliver it does.
The S2000 was great fun and utterly reliable (OEM brakes aside) the Meg is a very different experience. I count myself lucky to have experienced both and would be happy with either - but the Mini is best left for the road!
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05-06-2009, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny 5,May 6 2009, 02:02 PM
Good video.
It might have been a different story if all the cars had been on similar rubber!
I have changed to TOYOs on my S and the difference from the Potenza is amazing. It feels much more planted in fast corners.
It might have been a different story if all the cars had been on similar rubber!
I have changed to TOYOs on my S and the difference from the Potenza is amazing. It feels much more planted in fast corners.
Oddly I found the S tricky on R888's on track - much less notice of the rear end breaking away and more difficult to bring back under control when it did - also my lap times were no quicker (that might just mean I had reached my talent limit!). Equally strangely I didn't have any trouble keeping up with another S2000 on R888's when I was running the RE050's.
I can't explain that at all as all the other cars I have run on R888's from a Fiesta ST to a Westfield Sport have been significantly quicker on the track biased rubber. I switched back to RE050's for wear rate, price and the greater warning of a likely slide.
