Thought I would share my pain - MOT £1360
01-13-2014, 09:07 AM
#71
[/quote]
I get what you are saying - checking that calipers don't stick is achievable by the most non-technical people in the world however, and doesn't require any special tools. I'd say it's more a case of ignorance (perhaps a bit harsh a word to use, but I can't think of anything else at the moment) - there used to be a time when every owner knew how to maintain their vehicle to a basic standard (which the MOT is) - now a large proportion of owners leave everything to their mechanic/dealer - washer fluid bottles being big enough to last 6 months is a case in point. I'm sure old fogies and traditionalists would join me in saying it's one of the downfalls of the nation.
In the end, we likely have differing opinions on what constitutes a properly maintained vehicle, and what level of preventative maintenance is required. It's worth remembering that preventative maintenance also costs less than failure.
Oh, and I'm horrendous when it comes to IT, but do try
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
[/quote]
It's not so much the checking, Lofty, I agree that many people have the ability to do that, and those that don't definitely shouldn't ignore problems and leave them until the next service or the car becomes undrivable . I can easily check if I have a sticky caliper, but even though I'm happy to change brake pads, I'd be nervous about servicing the caliper itself, not so much because I can't do it, but if I cock it up, the car's stuck on my driveway and I'll have to pay even more to get a pro to sort out the original problem and the ones I've caused in addition.
I enjoy tinkering and I've had a crack at all the usual stuff, brakes pads, exhausts, audio, even leaf springs (back in the day), and I've fitted most of the bits on my S, but I still prefer someone who really knows what they're doing to do the important stuff, whether preventative or otherwise.
Not sure I agree that the situation is massively different these days to before though. I reckon it's always depended on the individual's level of aptitude and eagerness. I bet the bowler hat wearing middle classes didn't get their hands dirty under the bonnet of their Austins and Morrises any more than their counterparts do with their Audis and Mercs today. Add to that the proliferation of disposable income and electronics, sealed units and non user-serviceable parts that you need a computer to diagnose these days, and it's no surprise that people choose to have a garage do the work if they can't/don't have to.
Getting your hands dirty will only ever appeal to the technically minded, have a go heroes and the cash strapped.
I get what you are saying - checking that calipers don't stick is achievable by the most non-technical people in the world however, and doesn't require any special tools. I'd say it's more a case of ignorance (perhaps a bit harsh a word to use, but I can't think of anything else at the moment) - there used to be a time when every owner knew how to maintain their vehicle to a basic standard (which the MOT is) - now a large proportion of owners leave everything to their mechanic/dealer - washer fluid bottles being big enough to last 6 months is a case in point. I'm sure old fogies and traditionalists would join me in saying it's one of the downfalls of the nation.
In the end, we likely have differing opinions on what constitutes a properly maintained vehicle, and what level of preventative maintenance is required. It's worth remembering that preventative maintenance also costs less than failure.
Oh, and I'm horrendous when it comes to IT, but do try
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
[/quote]
It's not so much the checking, Lofty, I agree that many people have the ability to do that, and those that don't definitely shouldn't ignore problems and leave them until the next service or the car becomes undrivable . I can easily check if I have a sticky caliper, but even though I'm happy to change brake pads, I'd be nervous about servicing the caliper itself, not so much because I can't do it, but if I cock it up, the car's stuck on my driveway and I'll have to pay even more to get a pro to sort out the original problem and the ones I've caused in addition.
I enjoy tinkering and I've had a crack at all the usual stuff, brakes pads, exhausts, audio, even leaf springs (back in the day), and I've fitted most of the bits on my S, but I still prefer someone who really knows what they're doing to do the important stuff, whether preventative or otherwise.
Not sure I agree that the situation is massively different these days to before though. I reckon it's always depended on the individual's level of aptitude and eagerness. I bet the bowler hat wearing middle classes didn't get their hands dirty under the bonnet of their Austins and Morrises any more than their counterparts do with their Audis and Mercs today. Add to that the proliferation of disposable income and electronics, sealed units and non user-serviceable parts that you need a computer to diagnose these days, and it's no surprise that people choose to have a garage do the work if they can't/don't have to.
Getting your hands dirty will only ever appeal to the technically minded, have a go heroes and the cash strapped.
01-13-2014, 11:19 AM
#72
Registered User
I think we should ask Chippo about what the middle aged people did - he should know, having actually been around in 'the good old days'.
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree - I'm risking repeating myself - perhaps you are too. I agree that more modern cars make it more difficult to DIY, along with Renault inventing another type of fixture every time a new car is introduced.
The pros and cons of both our points of view can he argued til the cows come home.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree - I'm risking repeating myself - perhaps you are too. I agree that more modern cars make it more difficult to DIY, along with Renault inventing another type of fixture every time a new car is introduced.
The pros and cons of both our points of view can he argued til the cows come home.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
01-13-2014, 11:33 AM
#73
Originally Posted by loftust
I think we should ask Chippo about what the middle aged people did - he should know, having actually been around in 'the good old days'. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree - I'm risking repeating myself - perhaps you are too. I agree that more modern cars make it more difficult to DIY, along with Renault inventing another type of fixture every time a new car is introduced. The pros and cons of both our points of view can he argued til the cows come home. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
One last point I really must correct you on though; Chippo is from the Middle Ages, not middle aged
01-13-2014, 11:40 AM
#74
Bloody cheek , how old do you think I am
Having had words with Audi Uk today they virtually said if the computor says its ok it must be , so its seems i am telling porkies about my problems with my A4 ! I hope his ears are still hot from the roasting he recieved in the nicest possible way. So i have now been passed up the management ladder we will see. So i can see where lofty is coming form vis a vis Renault etc it is tricky to deal wth them or is it , I told Audi maybe we are at a point where old fashioned fault finding techniques may need to be used but it seems they can't do that now and they certainly do not want to change any thing on spec! so I await what their next move is to be , they thought it was at an end but now the realise i am not going away.
But back to the topic, there are
1) Engineers natural intuitive , i sort of think i might be one of these bit big headed for me to say its for others to say . These are the guys who enjoy the tinkering the messing about , the trying out , pushing the envelope , scratching thier heads, never giving up. They will plump , wire , wood work , etc etc oftem with consumate ease ( plastering is the exception , as most have said here , its an art
2) There are engineers who learn and are taught, the commonly found ones competant ones
3) The ones that learn by numbers , they darent stray from the manual, they cant make a decision it has to be as the book , they deal with what they are given and do the job and no more
4) There are non-engineers , they do other things , just as improtant in the great zigorat of life , we need them too
In short we engineers, are beyond compare Oh above us are artists and musicians , god i admire them !
Oh givern a set of knitting needles and a sewing machine my wife is up there to, crawling I know but its true , she might read this. ;Lots of engineers can knit , I can sew
Years ago , not sure actually but lots of people did seem to get on with things , my Dad did, he was a typewriter mechanic ran his own little firm , and turned his hand to all sorts was a fantastic wookworker. One of my brothers is a true engineer makes things work, taught me things when i was young that i still remember ( hes 21 years older than me ) he did national service in the REME , mobile vehicle workshops in Germany, he taught me to bleed brakes on a Moggy van when i was about 10, and do the tappets. Another occasion we had the engine out , new main and big end bearings that was fun. As was lapping in new valves with a sticky stick and grindng paste. He showed me how to splice rope, actually taught a friend how to do this 2 weeke ends ago he's a Yacht Master , showed him how to back slice, long splice , eye splice and a join splice. So just maybe there's an element of genetics in all this. Hes still at it at 77 years old.
Still can't spell or get my head around grammer, and its me fick fingers that make me struggle with the Idiot pad !
Having had words with Audi Uk today they virtually said if the computor says its ok it must be , so its seems i am telling porkies about my problems with my A4 ! I hope his ears are still hot from the roasting he recieved in the nicest possible way. So i have now been passed up the management ladder we will see. So i can see where lofty is coming form vis a vis Renault etc it is tricky to deal wth them or is it , I told Audi maybe we are at a point where old fashioned fault finding techniques may need to be used but it seems they can't do that now and they certainly do not want to change any thing on spec! so I await what their next move is to be , they thought it was at an end but now the realise i am not going away.
But back to the topic, there are
1) Engineers natural intuitive , i sort of think i might be one of these bit big headed for me to say its for others to say . These are the guys who enjoy the tinkering the messing about , the trying out , pushing the envelope , scratching thier heads, never giving up. They will plump , wire , wood work , etc etc oftem with consumate ease ( plastering is the exception , as most have said here , its an art
2) There are engineers who learn and are taught, the commonly found ones competant ones
3) The ones that learn by numbers , they darent stray from the manual, they cant make a decision it has to be as the book , they deal with what they are given and do the job and no more
4) There are non-engineers , they do other things , just as improtant in the great zigorat of life , we need them too
In short we engineers, are beyond compare Oh above us are artists and musicians , god i admire them !
Oh givern a set of knitting needles and a sewing machine my wife is up there to, crawling I know but its true , she might read this. ;Lots of engineers can knit , I can sew
Years ago , not sure actually but lots of people did seem to get on with things , my Dad did, he was a typewriter mechanic ran his own little firm , and turned his hand to all sorts was a fantastic wookworker. One of my brothers is a true engineer makes things work, taught me things when i was young that i still remember ( hes 21 years older than me ) he did national service in the REME , mobile vehicle workshops in Germany, he taught me to bleed brakes on a Moggy van when i was about 10, and do the tappets. Another occasion we had the engine out , new main and big end bearings that was fun. As was lapping in new valves with a sticky stick and grindng paste. He showed me how to splice rope, actually taught a friend how to do this 2 weeke ends ago he's a Yacht Master , showed him how to back slice, long splice , eye splice and a join splice. So just maybe there's an element of genetics in all this. Hes still at it at 77 years old.
Still can't spell or get my head around grammer, and its me fick fingers that make me struggle with the Idiot pad !
01-13-2014, 12:52 PM
#75
UK Moderator
Yes, as I said on the other thread, horses for courses. You're good at fixing actual things, but clearly no good with things electronic! 
Let's face it, modern cars are, in the main, incredibly reliable, and therefore most people don't need the skills that were required in the 70s and 80s simply to get the car off the driveway in the morning.
Today was a cold, damp morning and the main problem people seemed to be having was clearing their windscreens before setting off
If your car "just works", then it's very easy to become complacent about it.
For the first 3-4 years of my S2000 ownership, I simply put fuel in an checked the oil once a month. A service once a year was all that was required to keep it roadworthy.
FWIW I am very envious of the amazing job you were able to do on your car.
Let's face it, modern cars are, in the main, incredibly reliable, and therefore most people don't need the skills that were required in the 70s and 80s simply to get the car off the driveway in the morning.
Today was a cold, damp morning and the main problem people seemed to be having was clearing their windscreens before setting off
If your car "just works", then it's very easy to become complacent about it.
For the first 3-4 years of my S2000 ownership, I simply put fuel in an checked the oil once a month. A service once a year was all that was required to keep it roadworthy.
FWIW I am very envious of the amazing job you were able to do on your car.
01-13-2014, 01:07 PM
#76
Simon don't go there, just finally got back in , why does my mac book hate S2KI so much , now using idiot pad
Yep cars are so good now. I agree.
Cold and damp years ago was sure to bring a spell of unsuccessful cranking all around , and much fiddling.
Is that better? It's the only web site that I have problems with
Yep cars are so good now. I agree.
Cold and damp years ago was sure to bring a spell of unsuccessful cranking all around , and much fiddling.
Is that better? It's the only web site that I have problems with
01-13-2014, 01:44 PM
#77
In answer to your question, Chippo, or Fatfingers as I think I'll call you now, I think you're really bloody old. I think of you as my wise old grandfather
As for Renaults, as a veteran of several Renaultsport cars, I can say that your Audi experience is bad, but not on a par with the French. At least Audi know what working properly should actually be - the Renault specialsts couldn't actually agree how the bloody thing was supposed to work, let alone fix it. Never a dull moment, unfortunately.
In all seriousness though, I wanted to be a mechanic, but the careers chap at school talked me out of it. I'm not disappointed ending up a pen pusher, but not being able to do serious stuff under the bonnet frustrates me - wish I'd had a brother like yours. My old man was of the 'don't let the kids touch it' philosophy and all he's handed down is a collection of faulty power tools and a three-legged Black & Decker Workmate!
As for Renaults, as a veteran of several Renaultsport cars, I can say that your Audi experience is bad, but not on a par with the French. At least Audi know what working properly should actually be - the Renault specialsts couldn't actually agree how the bloody thing was supposed to work, let alone fix it. Never a dull moment, unfortunately.
In all seriousness though, I wanted to be a mechanic, but the careers chap at school talked me out of it. I'm not disappointed ending up a pen pusher, but not being able to do serious stuff under the bonnet frustrates me - wish I'd had a brother like yours. My old man was of the 'don't let the kids touch it' philosophy and all he's handed down is a collection of faulty power tools and a three-legged Black & Decker Workmate!
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