Tracday Insurance
09-11-2007, 02:00 AM
#21
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But there is no legal requirment to have it like you do to drive on the public highway? If that's the case then it comes down to how risk adverse you are as to whether you take out insurance or not.
09-11-2007, 07:48 AM
#23
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[QUOTE=NAP1,Sep 6 2005, 09:26 AM] I am looking into doing a track day at Brands Hatch (my 1st one for novices) and was wondering whether you guys that do regular trackdays bother with insurance?
I have just phoned one company who quote
I have just phoned one company who quote
09-11-2007, 07:51 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by lower,Sep 6 2005, 03:56 PM
so just out of interest, proper racing drivers must sign some form of disclaimer before they drive, or teams would be suing each other left right and centre.
Usual "Club/circuit/organiser not responsible for anything" form, but nothing to say I couldn't be sued by any other competitors.
To be honest I think everyone accepts there is an inherent risk associated with racing, perhaps there is a precedent set where a judge ruled that since the parties were racing they knew and accepted the risks.
Interesting question though, I never thought about it before.
09-11-2007, 07:55 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by MarkB,Sep 11 2007, 04:51 PM
To be honest I think everyone accepts there is an inherent risk associated with racing, perhaps there is a precedent set where a judge ruled that since the parties were racing they knew and accepted the risks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volenti_non_fit_injuria
In essence, if you put yourself in a position voluntarily where injury or damage is par for the course, you can't complain about it after the fact - you're deemed to consent in advance to the usual risks associated with the sport. Most often applicable to contact sports like rugby and boxing, but I'd guess you can apply to motorsport too.
09-11-2007, 08:17 AM
#26
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I've spoken to racers who say that basically if someone knocks you out, causing you to trash your car, it's a case of lentus faeces
Same basically applies on track days. Yes you could sue, but I wouldn't count on it getting you anything other than a lawyers bill.
There's very few proper crashes on trackdays and quite frankly you can spot the people who are going to properly crash faily easily. This is in contrast to someone who might stick it in the kitty litter or plough a furrow.
I take the policy of if I bin it, I pay. I haven't binned it yet, but if I did, whilst it'd be traumatic, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
The nurburgring is worth a whole thread on its own.
Same basically applies on track days. Yes you could sue, but I wouldn't count on it getting you anything other than a lawyers bill.
There's very few proper crashes on trackdays and quite frankly you can spot the people who are going to properly crash faily easily. This is in contrast to someone who might stick it in the kitty litter or plough a furrow.
I take the policy of if I bin it, I pay. I haven't binned it yet, but if I did, whilst it'd be traumatic, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
The nurburgring is worth a whole thread on its own.
09-12-2007, 06:20 AM
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I have to say this thread was starting to scare the sh*t of me and I think could put people off attending track days. Trashing your own car because you've exceeded the capabilities of your car or more likely the those of the driver is one thing but either being hit or taking out the Veyron starts to become a scary (and very costly) proposition.
Until this thread I'd always taken the view that whatever happened was down to you and by participating you accepted the risks involved. If you wanted some level of piece of mind you could take out insurance, but the majority don't.
If you crashed it, tough. If you got hit, tough and conversely if you hit someone else then tough for them. The tone of thread started me questioning if this would really be the case, so I asked Jonny @ Booktrack, below is his response:
If you look at:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eKstcSXKynE
Then you might suggest the Elise wasn't putting enough distance between himself and the M3 and was lucky to avoid it.
Until this thread I'd always taken the view that whatever happened was down to you and by participating you accepted the risks involved. If you wanted some level of piece of mind you could take out insurance, but the majority don't.
If you crashed it, tough. If you got hit, tough and conversely if you hit someone else then tough for them. The tone of thread started me questioning if this would really be the case, so I asked Jonny @ Booktrack, below is his response:
Trackdays - as with formal/regulated motorsport is entirely at your own risk - if someone drives into you that's your problem. I know of a couple of legal cases - both of which got thrown out of court as the particpants are deemed to have "been aware of the risks". Neither on BaT days I hasten to add!)
I partly agree that the disclaimers are almost worthless peices of paper - but the single most important part of that document is the bit in bold at the top "MOTORSPORT CAN BE DANGEROUS AND PARTICIPATION CAN RESULT IN SEVERE INJURY OR DEATH". That line alone ensures that the participant is aware of the hazards and should be sufficient in itself to satisfy a judge that's the case.
Of the 8 car-car contacts I can recall in the last 9 years, 6 of them involved race cars who were either driving far too close or pushing far too hard, or both.
If you want to avoid hitting another car- keep your distance. If you want to avoid being rear-ended then keep an eye on your mirrors - it's all perfectly manageable IMO and I for one have never put myself in a situation where I may get collected by someone elses accident. Awareness and observation are the key. It's fair to say that 100% of the car-car contacts we've had (all 6 of them) have been caused by a lack of one of these.
I partly agree that the disclaimers are almost worthless peices of paper - but the single most important part of that document is the bit in bold at the top "MOTORSPORT CAN BE DANGEROUS AND PARTICIPATION CAN RESULT IN SEVERE INJURY OR DEATH". That line alone ensures that the participant is aware of the hazards and should be sufficient in itself to satisfy a judge that's the case.
Of the 8 car-car contacts I can recall in the last 9 years, 6 of them involved race cars who were either driving far too close or pushing far too hard, or both.
If you want to avoid hitting another car- keep your distance. If you want to avoid being rear-ended then keep an eye on your mirrors - it's all perfectly manageable IMO and I for one have never put myself in a situation where I may get collected by someone elses accident. Awareness and observation are the key. It's fair to say that 100% of the car-car contacts we've had (all 6 of them) have been caused by a lack of one of these.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eKstcSXKynE
Then you might suggest the Elise wasn't putting enough distance between himself and the M3 and was lucky to avoid it.
09-12-2007, 06:34 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by Lurking Lawyer,Sep 11 2007, 03:55 PM
Volenti non fit injuria is the concept that applies and in all but the most extreme cases would prevent one competitor suing another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volenti_non_fit_injuria
In essence, if you put yourself in a position voluntarily where injury or damage is par for the course, you can't complain about it after the fact - you're deemed to consent in advance to the usual risks associated with the sport. Most often applicable to contact sports like rugby and boxing, but I'd guess you can apply to motorsport too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volenti_non_fit_injuria
In essence, if you put yourself in a position voluntarily where injury or damage is par for the course, you can't complain about it after the fact - you're deemed to consent in advance to the usual risks associated with the sport. Most often applicable to contact sports like rugby and boxing, but I'd guess you can apply to motorsport too.
09-12-2007, 06:41 AM
#29
Please would Mr Lereoux return to the stand. In your statement you say that:
But then go on to state:
Seriously though, avoid the muppets and you'll be fine (and Jonny will always take action if an incident is reported to him. I have had to speak to Jonny in the past when a muppet in a 993 Turbo overtook on a red flag and made a close overtaking maneouvre into the old hairpin whilst trying to keep up with the GT3s which I had let past)
Of the 8 car-car contacts I can recall in the last 9 years, 6 of them involved race cars who were either driving far too close or pushing far too hard, or both.
It's fair to say that 100% of the car-car contacts we've had (all 6 of them) have been caused by a lack of one of these.
09-12-2007, 06:48 AM
#30
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Please would Mr Lereoux return to the stand. In your statement you say that:
"I know of a couple of cases .... (not BaT)"
and
"of the 6 we've had"
which by my count = 8
The case for the defence rests.