Tracday Insurance
09-12-2007, 06:53 AM
#32
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Mr Leroux was further "heard" to state:
lawyers are always going to protect their own income by assuring you a claim is possible in any circumstance. In reality there's not been a successful case in the UK.
09-12-2007, 07:07 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by Lurking Lawyer,Sep 12 2007, 04:01 PM
(However, in anticipation of you providing those funds I'll venture the opinion that what Jonny says seems to be in line with what I posted above regarding volenti )
I'll venture the opinion that what Jonny says seems to be in line with what I posted above regarding volenti )and your previous comment:
It does not change the general position which I outlined above, in other word's that each participant is responsible for the consequences of their own actions and for any damage which their own negligence causes to anyone else there.
09-12-2007, 07:16 AM
#35
Presumably it's a case of proving negligence beyond what would be reasonably acceptable. So for example, if somebody deliberately drove the wrong way around the track, then they could be liable for an accident caused, but just losing it on a corner wouldn't count as that's the sort of risk you'd expect on a track day.
That'd be my guess, but I am not a lawyer (as my bank balance proves).
That'd be my guess, but I am not a lawyer (as my bank balance proves).
09-12-2007, 07:20 AM
#36
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Hmmm. Looks like I've changed my position slightly in the intervening 2 years! In my defence, I started off talking about track days, but then when I posted above the discussion had turned to liability for racing incidents in competitive racing.
The latter is subtlely different to the former in that the volenti defence is going to provide a more compelling basis to deny a claim arising from an incident in a race as both parties will be deemed to have accepted the risk of damage/injury arising in the ordinary course of the event.
In the case of a trackday, there's a far weaker presumption that that is the case, as it's not competitive or timed and the participants are less likely to be deemed to have accepted those risks. If you cause an accident through your negligence on a trackday, you MAY find yourself on the wrong end of a claim if it can be demonstrated that you were acting contrary to the operator's guidelines and rules. In other words, if you're playing the fool and come unstuck, causing damage to some one else, it's at least arguable that volenti shouldn't apply as you shouldn't have been doing it in the first place.
That said, I think it would still be a struggle to convince a judge that the person hadn't accepted the risk, unless the other party had behaved so completely negligently as to have been impossible to predict someone would do that.
So, I think the position is this:
1. Like on the road, you're generally liable for the consequences of your own actions.
2. However, on the track in a competitive race, volenti is going to give you a defence to a claim of negligence in the vast majority of cases as long as the damage flows from a "normal" racing incident.
3. On a track day, the same applies, although to a lesser extent, and there's probably more scope to argue that someone should be held liable for their actions if they were obviously breaching the rules and/or behaving in a way that goes beyond the usual risk you would accept by signing up to do a track day.
Now, where do you want me to send that bill....?
In my defence, I started off talking about track days, but then when I posted above the discussion had turned to liability for racing incidents in competitive racing.The latter is subtlely different to the former in that the volenti defence is going to provide a more compelling basis to deny a claim arising from an incident in a race as both parties will be deemed to have accepted the risk of damage/injury arising in the ordinary course of the event.
In the case of a trackday, there's a far weaker presumption that that is the case, as it's not competitive or timed and the participants are less likely to be deemed to have accepted those risks. If you cause an accident through your negligence on a trackday, you MAY find yourself on the wrong end of a claim if it can be demonstrated that you were acting contrary to the operator's guidelines and rules. In other words, if you're playing the fool and come unstuck, causing damage to some one else, it's at least arguable that volenti shouldn't apply as you shouldn't have been doing it in the first place.
That said, I think it would still be a struggle to convince a judge that the person hadn't accepted the risk, unless the other party had behaved so completely negligently as to have been impossible to predict someone would do that.
So, I think the position is this:
1. Like on the road, you're generally liable for the consequences of your own actions.
2. However, on the track in a competitive race, volenti is going to give you a defence to a claim of negligence in the vast majority of cases as long as the damage flows from a "normal" racing incident.
3. On a track day, the same applies, although to a lesser extent, and there's probably more scope to argue that someone should be held liable for their actions if they were obviously breaching the rules and/or behaving in a way that goes beyond the usual risk you would accept by signing up to do a track day.
Now, where do you want me to send that bill....?
09-12-2007, 11:16 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by MarkB,Sep 11 2007, 04:51 PM
Not that I ever remember signing.
Usual "Club/circuit/organiser not responsible for anything" form, but nothing to say I couldn't be sued by any other competitors.
To be honest I think everyone accepts there is an inherent risk associated with racing, perhaps there is a precedent set where a judge ruled that since the parties were racing they knew and accepted the risks.
Interesting question though, I never thought about it before.
Usual "Club/circuit/organiser not responsible for anything" form, but nothing to say I couldn't be sued by any other competitors.
To be honest I think everyone accepts there is an inherent risk associated with racing, perhaps there is a precedent set where a judge ruled that since the parties were racing they knew and accepted the risks.
Interesting question though, I never thought about it before.
09-12-2007, 11:17 AM
#39
Administrator
Anyway to answer somewhat the OP's question
If you're interested in trackday insurance you could try these:
http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk
http://www.moris.co.uk
If you're interested in trackday insurance you could try these:
http://www.competition-car-insurance.co.uk
http://www.moris.co.uk
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