flexer

Just wanted to say some people are starting to get together to get a enthusiasts club going in utah and we just opened up a forums board for Utah. It is focused on the Utah automotive scene in utah and should be like what KSL local sports radio is to ESPN for us in the car scene. I needed a place I could go where I could just hear local SPORTS, and that is on KSL,,,,,now I have a place to go for local automotive stuff and that is..........


***** www.utahpace.com *****

Thanks all

J. R.

ofire

The "mission statement" or whatever posted below is from that site. I find it almost laughable and hypocritical. Almost like being in a fraternity but instead of degrading the potential member, they have a "requirement." It sounds to be almost directly opposed to the type of attitude you think they would be seeking. It's this type of elitist attitude that detracts from social gatherings in the first place and creates the inevitable cliques you find at them.

I would rather hang out with guys who don't care and just like to have a good time. It was like hanging out with the Ferrari club. While they were very nice to let me tag along and were really cool, it was more than once that I heard a bash on other car manufacturers or the cliche "yeah you can tag along, IF YOU CAN KEEP UP" said by the guy who just worked at the dealership and did not own one himself. Now when I went and hung out with the PCA guys. Those guys are freaking enthusiasts to the core. They love their cars but will put them through the paces, smash cones, and just have a good time. While hesitant when I first met them, they quickly warmed up and didn't care who I was or what I drove. Good dudes for sure.

So to end my rant F**K PACE. That statement alone probably will be enough to exclude me from their club, as it is probably considered by them to be a clear demonstration of not being "mature."


"Utah's Performance Automotive Club of Enthusiasts (PACE) is not your everyday club. We originally were a group of friends that came together to create something more special than the regular "parking lot hang-out." Although we still enjoy and participate in that scene, we felt like it was time to start something more mature. We didn't want to start just any club, but instead assemble a tight, elite group of enthusiasts.

Our mission is to become the epitome of the automotive enthusiasts in Utah. We will achieve this by exclusively selecting our members based on prerequisites that set us apart . Our image will be upheld by our member's quality. We are, engineers, teachers, IT guys, marketing directors, and even university students. We all have a strong background and are confident in our goals and asperations in life. This is more than a skin deep club where having a cool car will get you in. While having a nice car is something that most automotive enthusiasts have, we are looking at things like attitude, car knowledge, education, and other interests. If you believe you fit our standards and goals please contact one of our leaders and we will be happy to talk with you and invite you to our next meet.

Thanks for visiting our brand new site and you'll be hearing about us soon."

flexer

I agree with everything you say, and yet I am still a member of that club. The thing is you look at a exclusive club and you say: " oh those guys, FCK them". Think they are so cool......

Thing is that is what drew me to it. You see, I have lots of guys I hang out with in the car scene. I hang out with them in parking-lots. I hang out with them at car shops as a " car shop groupie" and we go on drives with clubs all the time. Now that scene is a lot of fun and I love that. As I grew older though and more into automotive things, I found I was missing something. A more mature group then what I was currently dealing with. I have been to the SCCA autocross days and LOVE IT, but its more about driving and competition, the just shooting the shi....Porsche days, LOVE IT, just not frequent enough.

You give the example of the Ferrari group you went to hang out with, where there was a douche bag that said the comment: " if you can keep up". And how did you feel? You felt like you wanted to punch the douche in the face probably. You may have thought what I think: " Why do I have to deal with this, why can't I just go have a fun time with a fun group of enthusiasts and not deal with dick heads."

How about I give you an example:
Everytime I go hang out at some of the local parking-lot car hang-outs I have to hear all this drama about how so and so wants to race so and so for money, but the one guy is a pussy and won't do it, and then they get into a wiener swinging contest, and who's friend has a friend of a friend who knows a guy who could destroy that car, and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..... Man I am TIRED TIRED TIRED of that.

Another thing I hate, I want to talk turbo's or mods and guys make the most outrageouse claims on stuff but when you try and get technical and explain it to them with math or physics they just keep talking over you because they can't understand what your saying. Show it to them in a magazine and then they believe you, but there isn't an article for everything, and now that Dave Coleman's Engineering articles in Sport Compact Car and canceled where can I go for good solid science backed automotive talk????? Huh, where? I understand the person wants to join in a conversation but if you lack the education to back up your points then might be a better idea to keep your mouth shut.

All I am saying is like you, I loved the porsche crowd, or the S2k crowd,or the NSX crowd but these guys just don't get together a lot if you didn't notice, and I like LOTS of cars, not just one car.

So this club starts that is set up to keep dousche bags like your ferrari guy away and you say: " FCK YOU" to it.......

I don't understand can you explain your reasoning? Why don't you at least come to a meet or something, and then when someone is a douche bag then yell FCK YOU, but why are you behaving this way before you have tried it?

J. R.

ofire

I rarely yell "f**k you" as it doesn't accomplish anything, ever. Except get the person pissed and even more involved when really all I would like is for them to shut up and leave. I wrote it in this case just to emphasize my point.

The reason I "act" this way, is the claim to be "elite." I would like to know who decides this and what circumstances, personality traits, education, etc.... they base it on. Usually, now this is a generalization, people who claim to be elite are pompous egotistical pricks who are the ones who have to talk over you. They are absolutely closed off to anything you may have to input that may disprove or at the very least disagree with what they have to say.

Now maybe if they were to change their mission statement and not act like they are a group that is supposed to be better or in search of the "elite" I would have a different opinion of them. I find it on par with the way jocks are stereotyped except that this is full grown men (and women) acting this way. Or maybe the way Hitler promoted an elite race (lol a little dramatic).

So while the individuals of this group may in fact be swell dudes that isn't the way they are going to come across to other individuals that are excluded. I would rather a group with standards of professionalism be established than that with standards of exclusion. Maybe in my mind those that are more knowledgeable and mature should show those that aren't a path to follow and be an example.

That being said, yes I wanted to punch Ferrari tag along douche in the ear. He rode b*tch in someones car for crying out loud. It was like his dream to own one and he acted like he already did. The owners themselves were cool for the most part and had a lot of knowledge on the cars. However, I know they don't work on them so its a little different trying to relate with them. They just take it to the shop for a $20,000 rotor replacement or a $3,000 oil change. I also don't go to any group gatherings usually because of all the things you mentioned. I cannot stand honda gatherings or the car shows and the small group of guys that think they are bad asses there. The stupid ass teenage girls walking around with their shirts rolled up to have their pictures taken on beat up Nissans and Civics. I don't like RMR midnights for the same reason.

Classy rebuttal though. If the group was comprised of members such as yourself, I would consider at least a meet. However, I still totally 100% do not agree with the elitism attitude and the mission statement. So if that is the case you can count me out.

flexer

After reading your post you sound JUST LIKE I DO! Everything you described about the honda meets and such. Everything you described about RMR.

And I agree with you on the wording of ELITE. It rubs people wrong, but it really is what I am looking for in a group.

BUT, let me say, I really like your wording which was, " standards of professionalism".

With your permission I am going to write the other members and see if we can change the wording to that. Even though when looking for professional people you are really looking for the elite people in there profession, it does happen to not rub people the wrong way. Its the hole Tomato Tomaaaato thing.

One of the best things I like about that club, is its not a Car club. It is an automotive enthusiasts group. You don't have to have a car to even be in the group. I have noticed that some of the most knowledgeable, and great to be around car enthusiasts, don't even have a car. Whether that is because of family, or location, or who knows why it doesn't matter. They are still great enthusiasts and therefor I want to be associated with them.

Anyway. Why don't you jump on that forum and come to one of the meets and decide if its for you or not, but I AM TELLING YOU, YOU SOUND JUST LIKE I DO when it comes to the current automotive car scene in Utah.

J. R.

ofire

I really do not mean it to be replacement wording. Maybe I am misunderstanding you. I meant solely that professional be used to describe a manner in which you act, not better or the best. By standards I did not mean setting standards to define what professionalism is in the car scene or whatever. I meant adhering to what the average person would define as professional, ethical.... "mature" i suppose.

I am no where near "elite" in my profession. I am a blue collar joe and pretty much a peon when compared with coworkers.

flexer

Thats fair that you might not be elite in your profession, but....


In one of your reply's above you said the Ferrari club was a bunch of nice guys but they had never turned a wrench on there own car. I would consider them then not car enthusiasts, but Ferrari owners.

But maybe you, while you don't own a Ferrari, know everything and every year and every motor about every change about every driver in F1 Ferrari has ever had, and every new technology change to every motor/frame/chassis since you fell in love with them in 1970 or something. I would consider you to be a Ferrari fanatic, and when it comes to Ferrari's, know much more than ANYONE you probably come in contact with that has ever worn a red Ferrari hat.

I would then consider you Elite when it comes to knowledge of Ferrari's.

That is really what the wording was supposed to mean. Supposed to separate the difference between someone that just drives a Ferrari and someone that is a ENTHUSIAST about Ferrari's.

Do you see the difference?

It doesn't matter. I sent the other members the suggestion on wording and they changed it. I realize now that the definition of ELITE doesn't matter. It just rubs people the wrong way. If you say the "best in your profession" or an "A student" in something people smile and say good for you. If you say you are "elite in your profession" or one of the "elite students" in your class people get turned off and think your conceded or have your nose in the air. I see that now.

Anyhow, the club is separate from the forums. so hopefully everyone will enjoy the new forum over there for Utah news.

Ofire, this post, if you read the first post again, was about the forum not the enthusiasts club. While it was fun talking about it with you, really all I wanted to do was let people know about the forum so they have a place to go to see what the local car guys are doing and whats going on.

Thanks for the suggestions and stuff on the wording. I really do appreciate it because I don't think anyone wants to offend people, we would just like to get a good group of guys together, that like you said, will offer a standard of professionalism that is hard to find in the "tuner" crowd.

J. R.

ofire

I would consider them enthusiasts as owning a Ferrari is much different than owning a honda. I don't think that they are unwilling to work on their cars, just that they may want to maintain a very exact maintenance history on their cars that is certifiable through Ferrari. They have F1 parties and such and have a love of racing. They chip their cars, get new exhausts and such just like anyone else. Most of them are also much MUCH older than us. So that may come into play as well.

As far as the forum, I just clicked on the web link and was taken to that fantastic mission statement.

Lastly, to be the best in your profession is a pretty wild claim. As most professions extend well beyond the walls of your office. I am not a fan of euphemisms (Best in your profession/Elite). I totally mean professional in a different way.

CourageOO7

Guys, we get the idea. Why not just say it's a car club for more mature professionals? ie. You don't want the pot head earning $10/hr and spending 120% of his income on his ride to join because he likely doesn't have a wealth of technical knowledge and might value running dubs on his Civic more than a one off Lotus 7 replica built from scratch in your garage. Right?

I'm all for it. I'm getting old and sick of ricers "jocking my ride." I want to hang out with people who don't starve themselves to drive a modified ride and understand that being car-poor is neither cool nor healthy.

That might be an unpopular opinion but it's basically the premise for the club. Where do I sign up?

flexer

Your dead on. The reality is though that idea of exclusion is going to leave a nasty taste in people's mouth. I was just trying to explain to ofire that. Some people are going to get offended because this group isn't just another car club.....its a enthusiasts group. But like Ofire said, when you just let everyone in you end up with another meet were half dressed high-school girls and laying over 1988 POS's with a card board body kit on them. Having a nice car or a car at all is not even a pre-requisite, so that right there would tell you that it is not a standard car club.

BUT AGAIN. THIS POST IS ABOUT THE FORUM NOT THE CLUB!

:-)


I'll call you later and tell you who you need to contact, but PM the administrator on the forum and he can tell you when the next meeting is and everything.

J. R.