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Hyper/race silver like RPF1 is back in, the black wheel craze is overplayed and done in my opinion, everyone says 10 spoke design looks best for S2000, they already have good forged options, but we need to try and make affordable flow formed wheels in 9.5 width with high offset yet still can fit bbk that are under 17 lbs! That's a sorely under-served option for this car/community!
Hyper/race silver like RPF1 is back in, the black wheel craze is overplayed and done in my opinion, everyone says 10 spoke design looks best for S2000, they already have good forged options, but we need to try and make affordable flow formed wheels in 9.5 width with high offset yet still can fit bbk that are under 17 lbs! That's a sorely under-served option for this car/community!
Cast wheels under 17 lbs in 9.5" - sounds like the "made of glass" formula that Enkei used for the RPF-1s. That was the most commonly bent/cracked/broken wheel I saw at the track before people started realizing that they should be prioritizing a BBK to reduce running costs of the s2k if they were going to track regularly more than 5+ days a year. I remember a single S2K challenge day way back in 2012 at Streets of Willow where the competitors gathered 6 or 7 bent/cracked RPF-1s. That was the start of that old-school tracking group moving away from the light-weight cast wheel formula. Cheap (aka-cast), Light-weight, durable - pick only 2.
as far as 17x9.5s, with Apex' and Titan7's current offerings, I see less need for that. Throw in Volk and Wedsport offerings, and there's a decent selection of 17x9.5 wheels with the proper offsets (45 to 57 range) that all clear BBKs.
Pretty much no options for 10.5" wide wheels with high offsets aside from going full custom with CCW.
Cast wheels under 17 lbs in 9.5" - sounds like the "made of glass" formula that Enkei used for the RPF-1s. That was the most commonly bent/cracked/broken wheel I saw at the track before people started realizing that they should be prioritizing a BBK to reduce running costs of the s2k if they were going to track regularly more than 5+ days a year. I remember a single S2K challenge day way back in 2012 at Streets of Willow where the competitors gathered 6 or 7 bent/cracked RPF-1s. That was the start of that old-school tracking group moving away from the light-weight cast wheel formula. Cheap (aka-cast), Light-weight, durable - pick only 2.
as far as 17x9.5s, with Apex' and Titan7's current offerings, I see less need for that. Throw in Volk and Wedsport offerings, and there's a decent selection of 17x9.5 wheels with the proper offsets (45 to 57 range) that all clear BBKs.
Pretty much no options for 10.5" wide wheels with high offsets aside from going full custom with CCW.
Especially square. Lot's of staggered or low (under +20 offset) out and about.
Completely disagree, the RPF1's were early tech and it has come a long way, having said that the RPF1 was under 16lbs and I personally did not see any cracking or bent wheels on RPF1's other than incidents that would do the same to any wheel, forged or not and I have tons of track time and history. We really don't need another forged wheel going for $2300 for a set, we need a sub $2000 set that is wide, with high offset and still lightweight. Considering how common the RPF1 is, it was a case of more people using it so a higher incidence rate of bent/cracked wheels, I bet if you actually took the percentage of owners tracking RPF1's you wouldn't see an appreciable difference in percentage that had cracking/bending incidents. Of course it's hard to control for those that go off and hit curbing and potholes specially hard compared to other drivers that stay off the rough stuff even if it costs them the best line in some cases. You likely saw so many RPF1 incidents because so many people use the RPF1, it's like going to an autocross and saying man I saw a lot of broken down miatas, when perhaps 25% of all cars there are miatas. We absolutely need 9.5" around 17-18lb mark in cast formula. People can no longer afford $2500 wheels but would still like to track. You are also confusing what Apex might be capable of compared with a stronger spoke design than perhaps what Enkei originally went with for the look they wanted to achieve. I understand the probably don't want to undercut sales of their existing forged lines, but if the weight penalty for cast is two lbs more but at a huge cost savings, it's something our community needs right now. Producing 10.5" wheels is really where people should to go CCW custom. If Apex wants to produce 9.5 and 10" that is fine but we are trying to get Apex to fill a need in the present market conditions, it's not 2018 anymore, costs are out of control.
What is clear though is the black wheel craze is over, everyone and their mom offering black wheels or painting them such is really done and a return to traditional silver needs to be made again. Producing 10.5" would require many compromises, steering rack spacers, etc. to make work and Apex wouldn't sell many I should think, thus they should stick to the 9.5 and 10" formula that is more amenable to this.
Last edited by michaelnyden; Apr 17, 2024 at 12:34 PM.
^^ If you want to track, but can't afford $2100 for a set of wide 17" wheels, you can't afford to track. Welcome to post covid where supply chain sucks, inflation is out of control, and interest rates for everything is super high. Yes, costs are out of control. Welcome to 2024, vendors are here to make money. Asking them to make cheap stuff isn't what they're generally looking to do.
I'm trying to avoid spending $3800+ and waiting 3months+ for an option where nothing at all exists.
You're unwilling to spend $2100 for a size where multiple off the shelf options that you can buy right now exist.
Cheap
Strong
Lightweight
Pick 2.
If you want it to be strong and lightweight - it needs to be forged = expensive.
If you want it cheap and light weight - it's going to be cast = weak.
If you want it cheap and strong - it's also cast = heavy.
The strength factor isn't just about spoke design - it's about materials and how much of it you use. Cast materials have a lower tensile and sheer strength. If you want to make it strong, you have to add more material, which means more weight.
That's just how the engineering works. Spoke design can only do so much to remedy the design limitations of the materials and casting process.
SA72R from wedsport fits the affordable and strong formula, but is heavier. You can get a set for $1500. The wheels can take heavy curbing hits - notably the left curbing exit of Phil-Hill at buttonwillow if you eff up the line, put two off and come back onto track over the curbing at speed. The SA72R survived the hit, the top hats on my coilovers cracked and did not - full bottom out. A friend effed up the same line on a different occasion, destroyed two Titan7 wheels on his E90m3.
Interesting to note, if you look up Enkei's current entire line up - everything that I could find in their 17x9 offerings are 19-21 lbs (Kojin, TS-5, TS6, TFR, TS-9) - nothing sub 19 lbs except for the RPF-1. Enkei doesn't make any more wheels in the 17x9 to 17x10 spec that weigh 15-16 lbs - fairly certain that the reason is durability. Another track regular that I know bent an RPF-1 at chuckwalla taking the racing line, which in the CW config involves you taking a large amount of curbing on the front straight for T1 & T2. It's a garbage wheel for track use. If you want light - gotta go forged. Plain and simple. Also, hardly anyone who is a track regular uses RPF-1s anymore. You'll have casuals show up in them, but no one else - doesn't matter what chassis.
I used those track examples since it looks like you're a local based on your other posts.
I'd take the existing EC-7 if they could offer it in a 10.5. They make it in 18x11 +52 in 5x114.3 for the mustang.
Apex will (and should) make more of whatever they think that they can sell more of with a greater percent margin. Probably agree that i'm a niche market and should pony up for CCWs if I really want 18x10.5s.
However, an 18x10.5 could work for the mustang crowd in similar offsets in the 50s. I would take a forged or cast option and as long as the durability could be vouched for. I'll trade durability for weight all day every day.
Another 17x9.5 +47. Why? for who? S2000 crowd? I'm trying to think what other chassis that offset and bolt pattern will support. STI and EVO crowd all going for 18"s. 350z/370z crowd also on 18"s. Offset also sub-optimal for those chassis. Only other chassis that could benefit from a cast 17x9.5 this wheel would be NC mx-5.
Last edited by Bullwings; Apr 18, 2024 at 06:07 PM.
In addition to the RPF1 being a bit bendy it is also not a very rigid wheel. Sacrificing a bit of weight to increase rigidity is worth it as you'll lose less camber due to wheel flex when cornering. There is a reason you don't see the RPF1's used often in Japanese time attack even on Enkei sponsored cars. Enkei themselves don't list the cornering performance (stiffness/rigidity) as particularly high on the RPF1. I think in order to hit the target weight of 17-18lbs in a cast 17x9.5 wheel you'll have to make the same sacrifices and by doing so a heavier 19-20lb wheel may perform better
Not scientific but..
RPF1:
Compared to the heavier but more rigid GTC02
NT03RR:
Last edited by azn akira; Apr 19, 2024 at 09:03 AM.
