Shift9303

Hello all, I'm wheel shopping and considering going with a square setup with my '01 AP1. As the title states, I know this subject has been beaten to death and I've read up a decent bit, but I was having difficulty finding a consensus on the front sway bar setup for a '01 AP with square tires. From my reading I am aware that the '01 AP1 has a stiffer OEM rear setup and it is highly recommended to upgrade to a stiffer front sway bar, but I've been having some difficulty finding out which one as not every once specifies the other variables of their car when commenting. I suppose my main question is how neutral is the saner/moddiction bar? Is it still fairly biased to the front (oversteer?) or is it more neutral. Will I likely have to go for a stiffer bar? And to this point, should I just drop down the money up front for a Karcepts bar for greater adjustability and higher max stiffness in the likely case that will I need it? I know this is a bit of a subjective thing but I want a relative ballpark so I can get the ball rolling and dial in the car as I go. Coil overs likely will happen in the future. I do have a staggered setup in mind but the wheels I'm looking at are quite a bit more expensive (I have difficulty justifying that much down on just wheels), plus I'm considering doing some auto X in the future and hear the square setup is best in this setting once dialed in.

Thanks in advance!

dc2-2-ap1

Keep the '01 front bar and put the rear from an '04-09 in. See how you like it, and determine if you want more from there. The saner/modiction is a great bar, but it is hard to get ahold of. If you can get one, grab it. The Karcepts is great for autox, but overkill for street and track. What spring rates are you running? Balancing spring rates and sway bars will have a drastically more beneficial outcome as opposed to leaving the spring rates under sprung and compensating with an aggressive front bar. 12k front and 10k rear is the common setup for spring rates.

Shift9303

Sorry I should have mentioned it since it's important information, but my car is a completely bone stock '01 AP1. I do plan on getting coil overs in the future, probably KW V3s or Ohlins DFVs. I haven't read up on this as much yet though.

Thanks for the thoughts, but is the AP2 rear bar really enough to tame the car? Seeing as some recommend the saner/moddiction front bar as "barely enough." I also have reservations about going softer as I dislike that wriggly feeling you get when the car doesn't transition as quickly as you'd like and creates a delayed response. I currently like how the back end rotates and would like to keep it that way; though I recognize everything is subject to change once I go square. The car is a weekend car so I don't mind trading off a bit of streetability if all this means a stiffer suspension. I saw that Moddiction has a group buy going on but I'm not sure I'll be able to commit as life may or may not get in the way. I understand the Karcepts bar being a bit overkill, but I don't mind the extra cost too much if it means expanded capability in the future. It seems like the thinnest bar delivers roughly the same strength as the saner/moddiction bar.

JamesD89

Get a sense of how the car feels before moving to the large front bar. You might be enjoy it, or you might feel like it's too tail happy.

I have to echo DC2's recommendation if you really do want to mess with your bars right now. An AP2 rear bar would be a cheap and simple mod, and it wouldn't be as drastic of a change compared to the larger autocross bars. I picked up a 00 FSB for my AP2 a couple months ago for $45. Try it out

starchland

running oem MY00 swaybars with square setup and the car feels great. Can really point the car now, put the power down mid corner and feel the rear end plant and come around.

deception9

17x9.5+47 with 245/255 here. running stock '00 front bar and '08 CR rear bar. i didn't like how oversteer prone it was with all the stock '00 bars on the car.

Bama Dave

I have an 02 with the square set and it's great buy it's self. That set up gives you more front end bite with curves and braking. If you are only autocrossing the car you will be fine. As you go up in speed you will notice that the front end will dive down on the corners of the car and then will need a better stiffer front sway to keep the car more planted around the corners. The Gendron bar either Monster bar if staying with the stock suspension. If not then the Gendron hollow bar for aftermarket suspension. Both are pricey but worth the money. Less money is the Moddication front sway bar is a great choice too. But get the square set up first and get use to it before changing anything else. You have a good baseline now then add or change parts and see how it works before adding other parts. This way is cheaper in the long run. Enjoy the car man. Later BD

Shift9303

Should I be more concerned about lift off oversteer? In what instances is there more oversteer with the square setup? I've had one bad run in with lift off oversteer and spun the car so I'm really paranoid about balance now.

Yes, thinking about going with a '06 rear bar as a cheap stop gap measure. What coil overs/ spring rates are you running?

s2000Junky

Corner entry oversteer. Lift off oversteer shouldn't change in theory if all else the same. So if you had it before, you will still have it along with corner entry oversteer. The corner entry is inherently the balance of the tire stagger and suspension with the natural inertial factor, wile lift off oversteer the diff is contributing to with some inertia balance shift. I guess bring your big boy pants lol

shiv

When I went to a square setup on my ap1 I was running 255 width and installed the whiteline bar in the front, stock rear bar, and stock rest of the suspension. I don't autocross the car at all, and it spends the majority of its time on track. I really liked the way the car handled with that setup. The car rotated very nicely on turn in and provided great feedback. I found that the rotation happened quickly but I would not go as far as to call it "snap oversteer", it is very manageable, and really helped getting the car pointed in the right direction quickly. From there I eventually added HKS Hipermax IV SP coilovers. The rotation characteristic of the car remained as it previously was but with enhanced steering feedback, much reduced body roll, generally higher corner speeds, and overall more stable. If you're planning on doing autocross with the car a popular setup seems to be the karcepts/gendron bar combined with front ball joints to dial in more front camber.