Return to 16" wheels?
09-24-2017, 08:34 AM
#21
Thread Starter
Yea, so now I am thinking I would have been better off with 215 Contis in the front, maybe even 205. Looks like they fit the volks fine. I'm not worried about tons of grip.
Oh well, live and learn. This has been interesting. I've learned a bit about what affects street handling. Right now I feel like I have good wheels, but too much tire. The wide tires take away from the inherent nimbleness of the car on the street. I think the feeling of nimbleness I have with my OEM 16" wheels may be more attributable to the narrower tread, (6.7" v. 7.6" for the conti 225), than it is to the weight of the 16" wheel, or the taller sidewall. There is no question though that the wider Contis - (225/255) - do feel very solidly planted to the road. They are confidence inspiring. So there is a trade off. Both have there good points.
Oh well, live and learn. This has been interesting. I've learned a bit about what affects street handling. Right now I feel like I have good wheels, but too much tire. The wide tires take away from the inherent nimbleness of the car on the street. I think the feeling of nimbleness I have with my OEM 16" wheels may be more attributable to the narrower tread, (6.7" v. 7.6" for the conti 225), than it is to the weight of the 16" wheel, or the taller sidewall. There is no question though that the wider Contis - (225/255) - do feel very solidly planted to the road. They are confidence inspiring. So there is a trade off. Both have there good points.
Last edited by rpg51; 09-24-2017 at 11:07 AM.
09-26-2017, 06:03 PM
#22
Thread Starter
09-28-2017, 12:11 PM
#23
It seems you have come to the conclusion that I was going to post. Its the narrower front that is giving the nimble feeling. The taller, and softer sidewall is giving the comfort.
The lighter aftermarket wheels give their own feeling, which is more responsive to directional and rotational changes, (turning, stopping, going).
Grip is highly overrated on the street. What makes this car special is its responsiveness, not the numbers it generates (many lesser cars can generate better numbers).
For the street, use good tires certainly, but size them for responsiveness, not for outright grip.
The lighter aftermarket wheels give their own feeling, which is more responsive to directional and rotational changes, (turning, stopping, going).
Grip is highly overrated on the street. What makes this car special is its responsiveness, not the numbers it generates (many lesser cars can generate better numbers).
For the street, use good tires certainly, but size them for responsiveness, not for outright grip.
09-28-2017, 04:23 PM
#24
Thread Starter
The lighter aftermarket wheels give their own feeling, which is more responsive to directional and rotational changes, (turning, stopping, going).
Grip is highly overrated on the street. What makes this car special is its responsiveness, not the numbers it generates (many lesser cars can generate better numbers).
For the street, use good tires certainly, but size them for responsiveness, not for outright grip.
Grip is highly overrated on the street. What makes this car special is its responsiveness, not the numbers it generates (many lesser cars can generate better numbers).
For the street, use good tires certainly, but size them for responsiveness, not for outright grip.
Last edited by rpg51; 11-11-2017 at 04:59 AM. Reason: Explanation
09-29-2017, 05:37 AM
#25
Moderator
Did you just say grip is unimportant? I'm not understanding your logic here.
09-29-2017, 06:06 AM
#26
I'll leave it to the OP to explain his thinking, but as another person advocating that the stock 16" setup is good on the street, I'd clarify that I don't think anyone said grip is unimportant. Rather, the amount of grip available with the stock AP1 setup is sufficient for street driving. Adding wider tires to get more grip affects steering feel and responsiveness. The tradeoffs are a personal choice. I'm in the process of going square for the track and love the extra grip in that context. But I've been driving the setup on the street for a few hundred miles and have found I do not enjoy it as much as the stock 16" setup, even with the additional grip.
09-29-2017, 06:31 AM
#27
What I take away from the op recent statement that 'grip is unimportant' is that modern tires have become so good, that decent performance oriented tires, in the stock sizes for our cars, even ap1 sizes, provide all the grip needed for sane street driving. That there is enjoyment to be had from the cars responsiveness, rather than just generating G forces, and that going wider to augment grip has a negative impact on this responsiveness, and therefore the enjoyment of that aspect of driving this car.
But he probably didn't want to say all that just to make his point.
But he probably didn't want to say all that just to make his point.
09-29-2017, 06:38 AM
#28
Registered User
An interesting choice I have made for my AP1 is 215/45/16 square. This is my first set of 215's I have run, I like the balance of the car and the overall ride. I do run a Karcepts front bar and revalved Koni's, Autocross is my focus.
09-29-2017, 06:50 AM
#29
Thread Starter
What I take away from the op recent statement that 'grip is unimportant' is that modern tires have become so good, that decent performance oriented tires, in the stock sizes for our cars, even ap1 sizes, provide all the grip needed for sane street driving. That there is enjoyment to be had from the cars responsiveness, rather than just generating G forces, and that going wider to augment grip has a negative impact on this responsiveness, and therefore the enjoyment of that aspect of driving this car.
But he probably didn't want to say all that just to make his point.
But he probably didn't want to say all that just to make his point.
That is exactly what I intended to say. All the various options available provide plenty of grip, and so the question of how much grip a particular option offers is unimportant to me.
The other thing is that, even the high quality all season tires I have on my OEM 16" wheels right now provide plenty of grip for my lively back road driving. I'm honestly not sure I need to be buying max performance summer tires for my kind of driving. Good high quality AS tires are probably just fine and they get better tread wear so cheaper and less hassle in the long run. These BF Goodrich G-Force Comp-2 AS tires I have on my oem 16s seem perfectly adequate. They are not as cool looking as the higher performance (max and extreme) summer tires. But they perform really well IMHO.
So right now I am driving around on Volk CE28 17 inch wheels and 225/255 Contintental Extreme Contact Sport tires. The tires about 500 miles on them. The wheels have 500 miles since they were powdercoated. The are both in virtually new condition. But, I think I am going to sell the whole shooting match, wheels and tires, and run on 16 inch wheels. I keep bouncing around about this but I am on the verge of doing exactly that. Its just more fun on the 16s. I'm not sure why I have been reluctant to admit that to myself. I will remove them tonight, and put my oem 16 inch wheels and AS tires back on and drive them until the car goes into storage in a month or so. I'll be putting the volks and the contintentals up for sale on the forum shortly. If 16 inch tires become hard to find in the future maybe I will have to go back to 17s, but I'll probably just use OEM ap2 17" wheels, which accomodate the narrower the side of 17" tire offerings a bit better than the Volks which are pretty and strong and light, but slightly wider than the OEM. I'm off big wide tires for street driving.
I think that I've been seduced by the alure of fancy wheels and high performance summer tires and they have actually detracted from my driving experience, not enhanced it. Not to mention they have lightened my wallet a good deal. I'm going back to basics.
Last edited by rpg51; 09-30-2017 at 03:53 AM.
10-04-2017, 11:56 PM
#30
i have the staggered setup with the 16" jdm bbs wheels and it feels amazing, the turn in so quick i feel it can cause the rear end to slip if you're not careful but it feels so precise like a razors edge, However thats not what gets you good lap times, and i don't have the $$$ for 17in rims since i got the 16s so i ended up buying another set of the rears so i can run a square setup. fresh RE11's (matching what i current have) in the front will hopefully net me some noticeable(its not THAT big of a change, 2 inches more tire in the front) change in braking performance and cornering performance while giving me some driver mod(rears will have about 40% more wear). going to add a front and rear( looser, maybe discounnect) sway bar to hopefully counterbalance that in the future(to complete the setup) too.