DanielB

After upgrading my MY00 to the SakeBomb Garage DFV kit, I'm ready to go square for my next set of tires. I'm looking for advice on wheels that meet the following criteria:

1. I'm only interested in size 17x9
2. Tires will be 255/40-17
3. Car has 3.2 deg camber in front. Rear is currently 2.5 deg but will likely be adjusted to help dial the handling in with new wheels and front roll bar.
4. Ride height is F: 340mm R:347mm (F: 13 3/8" R: 13 11/16")
5. These will be track wheels so not interested in beautiful (and expensive) options.
6. Here's the big one: currently making do with stock rotors and brakes with ducting at all corners and Hawk DTC-60. However, I expect I may need to upgrade to a BBK (both front and rear) at some time in the future. Would likely be Wilwood or AP racing - won't be Stoptech as that is balanced to keep the stock rear brakes.
7. Here's the other big one: I am not interested in wheels that requires spacers or fender rolling to clear the BBK.

After a lot of reading on this site, it looks like the best candidates are:

1. 949 Racing 6UL 17x9 +55
2. TSW Nurburgring 17x9 +63
3. TSW Interlagos 17x9 +63

I also see Enkei TS9 and TS10 available in 17x9 +45 and wonder if the smaller offset means that they will not clear without fender mods?

So my questions are:

• Which, if any, of these wheels will meet all my criteria (or am I dreaming)?
• Are there others I should consider?
• Which would offer the most clearance for a future BBK (Wilwood or AP Racing)?

Manga_Spawn

I think you may be dreaming at least on the no fender rolling part if you want to also account for clearing a BBK. To my knowledge none of those wheels fit over AP racing kits. They might fit over wilwood since those calipers are much slimmer but again not sure if it works without spacers. All of these will be at risk of grabbing your front fenders on the track.

Really anything under +60 on a 17x9 should have the fenders rolled especially for the front. 17x9 +45 is what everyone runs on the RPF1 and it definitely requires a fender roll the this spec RPF1 does not fit over a BBK.

s2000Junky

Yeah no wheel I'm familiar with can both accommodate a 9" width, BBK and no fender work. Its either going to be no BBK or no fender work to get a 9" wheel under the front of the car, not both. Plan on doing fender work.

ViperASR

The TSW Nurburgring +63 clears the StopTech ST40 BBK without fender mods. I've pushed the tabs up a little bit on the front fenders and haven't had any issues with tires catching the tabs (knock on wood). The fender liners get a little beat up but thats it.

This is with 255 front tires, lowered on KW Clubsports. The car isn't crazy low. Rear fenders aren't an issue with the +63 offset.

DanielB

Thanks for the feedback guys - trying to find the magic combination. What about the 949 6UL? I recall a thread when the wheels were being developed where they said they intended to be able to run 17x9 with 255 rubber and no mods to the fenders and no spacers. I believe they said they settled on +55 offset as it was the compromise that could achieve that and still clear a BBK (I think it was Wilwood as Manga_Spawn speculated). Anyone have any firsthand experience with them to confirm?

Manga_Spawn

You could probably contact them and see if they tested it over and BBK's. 17x9 +55 with a 255 is still going to be risky on the front. There are cases of people catching their fenders on the track with setups like this and even with the old 949's in +63. With the front wheels turning and under suspension compression it is easy for it to rub and grab. It is something to keep a close eye on and if you see signs of rubbing on the liner you should have them rolled since it is only a matter of time. The lip in between to 2 upper most liner tabs is what usually gets grabbed.

DanielB

I traded messages with Dan from 949 Racing last night. He says that with typical track/autocross suspension alignment, a 255 will not rub up front. He wasn't specific about actual values, but it sounds like I should be at least close with my setup. He also said they cleared most popular BBKs when they developed the wheel a few years ago but wasn't sure about the Wilwood. He sent a template and I have the Wilwood template too. Now I need to see if I can put them together with confidence that I'm really simulating the real deal.

I'm getting by with the stock rotors, ducting, and DTC-60 pads but am concerned that with the extra grip from wider front tires, I'll be braking harder and putting more heat into the fronts, and maybe the rears too. If I knew I could get by without BBK, that would make this so much easier. I have no desire to spend the money required for a BBK (although I have to admit the bling factor is nice). So far I haven't cracked a rotor but see lots of microcracks. I don't like the idea that I might miss a crack during the day and go out and have a catastrophic event. Otherwise it would make sense to continue to use inexpensive Centric blanks, change them every 4-5 events, and be able to avoid worrying about brake clearance. That's the essence of the dilemma for me.

Manga_Spawn

It is cool that their +55 fits over BBK's. I would still say you need to keep an eye out for any signs of rubbing on the liner. You could even put a piece of colored tape on that area and that would make checking for rubbing easy. The other thing to think about with a BBK is the cost of replacement parts. I am not familiar with the costs for AP racing and Wilwood but I know for my Brembo's replacement rings from stoptech are $250 a piece and pads aren't cheap either depending on compound. I think AP racing probably has more choices for pads than wilwood but not sure. Something to look into.

s2000Junky

Just do what everyone else does who finds out tracking 255's up front doesn't work without rolling and pulling the front fenders and be done with the dilemma. If you want to keep the S pristine aka not touching the fenders, then run 225-235's up front or don't track it. Keep in mind that fitment for street and fitment for tracking are two different things. Tracking finds all the weak points in your what you thought was a fitting set up. A 255 depending on the tire manufacture can sit pretty square on a 9" wide rim so depending on the offset can actually not tuck as well under compression and fit worse then a 10" wide rim which actually pulls/pre loads the sidewall a bit, performing batter anyway, getting the most out of a 255 section width. Throwing in a BBK just further solidifies the needs to pull your front fenders. I actually rub on the outside and inside fender with a 10" +58 255. I had to pull the front about 5mm and use some brunt force coaxing on the inner fender to add some room for compression wile the wheels were turned. This was with a average suspension drop of 13.2" fender to hub. The same tire on a 9" same offset isn't really going to offer any better fender fitment at the last 25% of the suspension travel which you will more then get into at the track.

DanielB

Thanks for the additional feedback and thoughts. A financial justification for a BBK seems like a hard one, at least for me as, with ducting, I am getting reasonable pad and rotor life. But as I said earlier, I expect it's just a matter of time before I do start cracking rotors as I brake harder with the better setup, and also my skills and confidence increase and I become faster and naturally brake harder. Hence I'd like to buy a wheel that has a reasonable chance at a BBK kit if I do go that way.

S2000Junky, your comments about your own situation are causing me to rethink going square. My car is anything but pristine, but I like being able to put the street wheels and brakes back on after an event and have it look and drive mostly like a regular non-tracked S2000. It keeps my wife comfortable to ride with me too I realize that rolling fenders and cutting liners probably won't be noticeable to her, so maybe it's just me not wanting to cut the car. Regardless, I'm good at wrenching, but not body stuff - so would probably want to find someone local with experience to assist.

So here's another thought: I start with the 949 6UL in 17x9 front and rear, but the first set of tires I put on are 235 in the front and 255 in the rear. As Manga_Spawn suggests, I can put some tape in the wheel well to see if there is any rubbing. I lose the ability to rotate front/rear, and don't get a lot more rubber. But the car is pretty neutral at the moment and this set of tires is wearing about the same front/rear, so might be a good way to get them on the car and see how much clearance remains. If it looks reasonable, I could go square with the tires for the next set. That's one of the benefits of doing a lot of track days; you wear things out quickly and get to try out more stuff I will probably go with the RS-4 again and it looks like the 235 can be put on a 9" rim (although that's the upper limit). Any thoughts or comments?

Edit: For the RS-4, the front would be 1.2% larger diameter than the rear. It's a MY00 so no vehicle stability control How sensitive is the S2000 ABS? Would this matter?