ian_6301

First of all, hello again to all of you. It's been a while and I've mostly been hiding over on http://www.yorkshire-divers.com (same name). In the intervening 2.5 years since selling the S and getting by with a Volvo V50 and now 2 kids, I have been pining most terribly for some high-performance action.

The current fleet of vehicles in the _6301 household comprises my Volvo, Mrs_6301's focus and my current tinkering project, the 1986 V8 110 Land Rover, complete with LPG conversion, cobra seats, 4 point harnesses, kick-ass sound system (in lieu of soundproofing), full stainless steel sports exhaust etc etc etc. It's fun and it's now pretty reliable, but it's neither one thing nor the other. With a wife and 2 kids, I can't enjoy family time green laning with them, as I only have 2 seats. On the other hand, most of it's recent use has been on-road, where it makes a lovely noise, but doesn't exactly handle. at all.

So, having taken a long hard look at what I'd use a second vehicle for, I've arrived at the decision that I need to sell the Land Rover (keep your eyes peeled on the other bit of the forum) and start amassing sheckles towards the next project. Something fast, small and strictly impractical. The idea is for something to blat around the lanes with initially to gain confidence, followed by track days. I'd like a good quality fo finish, without breaking the bank, but the scruffy-but-fast look is not going to cut it here.
I don't think that racing will be an option intially, but if bitten by the bug, I'd perhaps sell the first one and buy a racer.

Some of you may have already seen the great news on the Westfield website - Mega S2000 kits now available:

Having read Dreamer's caterfield thread and a number of others, I'm now looking for some guidance from the masses, especially those who have self-built such things before.

In particular, I'm wondering if the way to go is to start with a touring (ish) type setup like the one above, then dial in more track-centric features like a full cage, more adjustment in the suspension, etc, or to start from an Aerorace and add the creature comforts?

After that, I'm wondering whether an S2000 powered one is really such a sane idea? I want more in terms of power/weight that the S2000 did, but seriously, even if the thing comes in at say 700Kg, that's a hell of a jump... Would it be more sensible to go for a more conventional ford engine and then sell/start over with something more lairy once I get bored?

The build itself is likely to be quite slow, as in "over the course of about 18-24 months" slow! This ties in with available time and money. This would seem to mean that a modular kit would be more sensible, but they don't do one for the S2000 engine/box.

Suffice to say, I am more than somewhat confused by it all and rather than go to the chaps at Westfield and risk being seen coming from a mile away, I thought I'd turn to the oracle of all things sports-car related - you guys and girls.

So, over to you - what should I get?

RichUK

Your first port of call should be the owners forum - http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/ You'll soon see Ron and myself lurking on there.

I have a 2l zetec and a 2l xe at the moment, my recommendation would be that unless you are dead set on building one, then buy one that someone else has already built. Having said that there are a myriad of very helpful build threads on WSCC.

Heinz '57

+1
One of the best club sites around,loads of advice freely given. I went from a Westfield to the S2K.
RichUK gives good advice, unless you can keep the enthusiasm going for a self build, buy a completed car.
The S2k engine would be nice but you will have as much fun with any of the other engines. I had one powered by Henrys finest, a 1700 x flow.Miss it more than I miss the S if I am honest.

unclefester

I have a friend who is selling a Westfield - not sure how much he wants for it but it's engineer built rather than home mechanic built. He took a load of photos of the build too so you can see what was done when and where. I can send him your way if you like, if nothing else he'd be a good person to talk to about it.

http://pistonheads.c...les/3899486.htm - that's his car.

http://mx5-westfield.blogspot.co.uk/ is the build info.

Ultra_Nexus

Makes me laugh that the car pictured in that ad doesn't have an F20C in it

There are a few people who have shoved an F20 into a Westfield and it is a great engine!

The gearbox is a bit crap to be honest as it's heavy and the ratios don't suit the car although you can buy bellhousings to stick a type 9 on the end.

Like the above gentlemen have mentioned, buy one from wscc forum. If you would like me to contact a member on your behalf, no problem (non members cannot PM).

My car is 240bhp and 560kg so would have a similar PtW of an F20C jobbie. On track, yeah it's great.

On the road it is simply too fast - 0-60 is done in first gear and 100mph arrives in under 8 seconds. People band that around, but it is

Something with 150-170bhp on road tyres would be far more appropriate. Set of slicks on 13's for the track and you'll destroy 95% of the cars there anyway.

*Edit - I just thought i'd add that I had advice from here when considering a 7 or an XTR2. I was told to get the 7 for a number of reasons and I can say now that the guys (Rich and Graham) were 100% spot on

HTH

ian_6301

Thanks chaps!

I had a look in at the Westfield forum already, but got a bit bamboozled by it all. I'll MTFU and get back in there!

For me, the build is the whole point of getting a kit car. If it wasn't, I could buy one hell of an S2000 (or something else) for the £20k (ish) that I'm planning on spending here... It's as much about knowing that I built the thing as it is about driving it.

The Land Rover came to me as a knackered, non-running 2.5 Diesel pickup. It's now a fire-snorting V8 and the only things left to do are the body panels (it's a landy, so we'll scrub round that) and the usual bulkhead repair (putting it off until it stops raining!). I have done all of the work myself except the welding. This includes a complete engine rebuild at over £1,000 in parts, polybushes throughout, re-wiring everything between the front bumper and the bit where the loom disappears into the chassis to go to the rear lights, the LPG conversion, rebuilding the gearbox (twice), fitting racing seats and harnesses, fabricating the tunnel / seatbox extension panels to fit the new gearbox, moving the engine mounts, converting it to a full soft top, etc etc etc. Just about the only thing that I didn't do was take it all to pieces and put it all back together again.

The thing that really bugs me about the landy is that I keep seeing things where I have had to cut corners, either because I couldn't afford/justify the cost of the right part, or because I didn't have the time and needed it on the road for a particular event. I wish that I had the opportunity to do a full nut and bolt restoration, with proper bits, but it's just not practical, partly because even with a double garage, I just don't have the room, partly because at the end of it, unless I went for a new chassis and rear half bodywork, it would have still only be a 2 door / 2 seater and it would have been 10x cheaper to sell it and just buy one at the right spec.


Good spot on the engine in the megabusa masquerading as a mega S2000 though! I got it about a week ago, after checking which side the exhaust was on, then looking at the megabusa page and thinking "aha"...

150-170hp sounds pretty good and thinking about it, if the S2000 weighs 1400ish Kg (plus me at 100Kgs)and puts out 240ish HP, it's got a 160bhp/tonne P/W ratio. A westfield with a 2L Zetec in factory tune weighs in at around 550Kg (plus the heavy lump in the seat) and puts out around 150bhp. That's 230 bhp/tonne, which is pretty cool. There's also then a fairly well trodden route for getting more power out of that lump, up to 170 without too much trouble and then beyond with some more major surgery.

That would also make things considerably cheaper... Food for thought indeed!

Keep the advice coming!

unclefester

I'd rather buy a known good one from someone that built it properly and let them take the MASSIVE hit on the parts they used .... i know the cost isn't the point and building is half the fun but 50+ % depreciation is a high price to pay and that pre supposes you can find someone to buy it off you when you've had your fun without literally giving it away.

GiffS2K

With a wife and two kids you are not going to have the time to do a proper build, leave that for when the kids are older.

In the meantime you can buy something pretty special with £20k and get to use it too.

MarkB

Hi Ian, I posted a big update this morning and it got lost, so now I've had time to get my enthusiasm for posting all that again.....

I can see why you want to self-build. I was at the same stage about 5 years ago and the car is currently about 75% done, but sat in a shipping container waiting for me to get round to having certain parts fabricated and then summoning up the enthusiasm for the project again.
One reason is that I decided to trailblaze, and if I could give anyone one piece of advice regarding kit cars it's to tread a well-trodden route for your first one. There is a lot of expertise out there when it comes to building Westfields with Zetec engines and Type 9 gearboxes - if you truly want to take on a self-build, my advice would be to go this route - buy an ST170 engine (we just did this for our Ginetta race car, with throttle bodies it's pushing out 185bhp and when we get a new exhaust fabricated we're hoping for close to 200bhp with no other mods to the engine, an engine that cost us £450 - a lot less than an F20C), add a decent ECU that can control the VVT and you'll have a lot of available expertise online and with any luck, locally too (nothing beats having someone you can call on who'll pop round to help you out when you need it). Buy an S2000 kit and there will be a much smaller pool of talent to fish in.

On the other hand, a first project could be the refresh (and possibly re-engine) of an older car - you then get the hassle free way into kit ownership (no IVA to worry about) and can tailor the car to suit your needs while driving it to find out what those needs might be. A crossflow powered Westie can be had for around £5k, the X-Flow is becoming rare so you'd immediately recoup some of your purchase price selling it and as I mentioned above, an ST170 engine in good nick (there were still honing marks on the bores on the one we bought) is around the £500 mark - gain your experience refreshing the parts, tidying up the car and perhaps modernising the powertrain but all the while you also have a car to play in. One of the biggest frustrations of my build was not having a 'play' car, but as soon as I went out and bought the Elise and Exige, build work slowed as the impetus wasn't there any more (and I was spending money on the Lotuses instead of on the kit).

Ultra_Nexus

I understand the urge to build one - I was like that too.

But if you think about it, it just makes much more economic sense to buy one, take it to bits, improve it, rebuild it and job done