(edit by wanabe: be sure to read this entire thread... the opinions and conclusions change- this is one of our most "evolved" and interesting threads)


With the onset of colder weather, I noticed that the previous owner's paint chip fixes were popping out... ALOT of them! So in my dismay and disgust I went crazy with a paint pen a couple of weeks ago and filled them ALL in, easily took 3-4 hours of painstaking concentration.
You can see all the little pimples on my hood...


DISGUSTED again with the new results, I eyed my new Ebay find: a PORTER CABLE!! I cut out strips of 1500 sand paper/wrapped my thumb with it /used my thumb as a block (use a real wood block if you do this) and did the front drivers corner to test to see if the pc could handle what I had planned...


Sure enough, the pc + orange pad + menzerna intensive polish took out the 1500 grit scuffs in 3-4 tries. Convinced I could do this extensive fix, I drove ahead and took out all the little buggers...


Once I was done prepping(about 8 hours of sanding this past saturday) , I stepped back and let out a collective GASP!




You can see the driver's corner that I was hanging my hat on...


I taped off to do a comparison and away I went with the pc...


It took me about 4 hours to do the one side and some of the spots took about 8-10 go overs to get rid of...


the florescent light reflection on the driver's side has 10 coats of zaino there...see the difference the pc polished side has...clarity and color!!







It took another 4 hours to finish it all... then I used a blue pad with menzerna final polish


2 hours later, after the one coat of zaino 2 dried I let out a COLLECTIVE SIGH and I had my PRETTY BABY all shiny and new



I started this this morning at 9 am and I finished the final touch-up at 10 pm. LONG DAY but I am now swirl free and all shiny new....


I have never ever handled a pc before today. I found out that you need to use a glove so you don't get a blister, and that this is the GREATEST ever TOOL ever created!!!!!

This post has been edited by wanabe on Jan 27 2009, 07:45 PM

wow LOOKS GREAT one quick question though. to fill in those little paint chips, i can buy a paint stick (honda), fill it in, sand down the little pimple like bump, then PC away?

I took alot of shortcuts, but yes I got a paintstick and just filled them in. I rationalized not prepping more because many of the "chips" seemed to magically appear when the weather got cold and they popped out, leaving bare metal behind.

I waited for two weeks to see if any of my repairs would pop out on their own. Some did and I prepped those better.

Like I said at the end of my post, this was the FIRST TIME I have used a pc and the results speak for themselves. Granted I was apprehensive, but once I saw the test result I knew I would be ok. It still took ALOT of time and energy.


.................................>EDIT<....................................
The thread is getting kinda long so I will post up my technique here

I tried to minimize the contact area of the sandpaper to the size of a dime, basically wrapping the sandpaper around my thumb. This worked ok but after watching a real professional at work during a mod meet, I learned that a flat piece of wood the size of a small claybar (sanding block) is easier/gives better results. You wrap the wood with 1500 sandpaper and maintain the back to front motion of sanding while lubricating the surface with the 50/50 dishsoap. Note: I would use detailing claybar instead of sandpaper which results in a faster setup time and less stress See details near the end posts.

The reason you want a larger contact area is because you get a wavy finish if the contact area is too small (low spots in the paint)
.......................................................................

This was my PC technique . I found blue taping off half the hood helped me see where I was/how much I had left.

Sonus orange pad (I have upgraded to a Sonus SFX-1 Yellow pad which works faster @highest speed) with menzerna intensive polish. This combo will make the swirls disappear in one application. Use highest speed.

I ALWAYS spritz my pad with detailing spray first (I have zaino z6) to lubricate the pad (no paint burns),

put an X of product on the pad with a dot of product in every quadrant;

Smear the pad/product on my 2' x 2' work square on paint surface;

with machine on surface, switch it on

slight pressure on machine, let the pad move

do figure 8's in one direction, then both diaganols, then 90 degrees to where you started until the product disappears. Rarely should you have any residue.

Check your work, if not happy/see swirls/scuff mark still there , repeat with another product application ... The 1500 scuff marks can take up to 10 applications.


.........>Side notes<...................


I tried taping 1500 sandpaper on a PC by glueing the paper onto a sandpaper that had sticky back, which I used on an orange pad as backing. I worked on my silver accord on a big bumper ding that I blue taped around . I DO NOT recommend doing this. It came out OK but I can see how the machine could get away from you and gouge the paint. Not worth the risk.


I tried Lankga later down in the thread and got REALLY POOR results. It removed the paint from the chips even after a 4 week cure time. Takes just as much time as wet sanding. It might work on other paint manufacturers other than honda thin paint.


............................ .LOOK HERE. LESS SCARY ..............................................................

I am intrigued by a post I found on another site using clay instead of wet sanding

There are different clay grades here as I think some might be too fine...

http://store.yahoo.com/autopia/detailingclay.html


Here's what I did...........Masked off right up to the chip to eliminate getting touch up paint on the regular paint level. Applied two light coats to build the level slightly higher than the regular paint. I waited 10 minutes between coats. 10 minutes after the second coat I removed the tape and all that was left was touch up paint in the chip that was slightly higher than the level of the regular paint.

I waited 12 hours then clayed it and its abolutely perfectly smooth!!! Only ***** is the touch up color is darker than the regular paint but only I will ever notice that.

Thank you to both kompressornsc and JMSC for this suggestion. I have experimented in the past with compounding and wet sanding only to be dissapointed. This technique worked like a charm for me. My advice for those who havent had success is perhaps not allowing the touch up to cure completely?? perhaps claying it after a few hours might take it down.

.......................

thetz99-
wow, great thread!!!

and fantastic job with the pc-
very impressive, especially since this was your first try with the machine (also very brave!)

------------

i am going to "sticky" this at the top of our forum, so i want to also include this article to make the thread complete:
http://www.bettercarcare.com/articles.php?articleId=27

This post has been edited by wanabe on Jun 15 2005, 07:27 AM

Wow! REALLY great job on the repairs. When I saw the third pic, I was like ! But it looks like you got it looking good as new. I agree that the PC is one of the greatest tools ever made.

-sam

You guys on this forum really provided alot of information for me to rely on. I also read somewhere on bettercarcare that it was virtually impossible to burn through the paint with a pc. Once I tested and got a good result I was much more confident.

Then once my ocd kicked in I was committed to finishing it....

As a footnote, the next day I get home from work and find that I have a NEW rock chip!! I can see this is going to be a never ending battle.

Can you pc a invisible bra?

Edit: Yes you can pc a clear bra, just use whatever you use to de-swirl...gives fantastic results. Plastic polishes up just like paint, so get the haze off of your headlight lenses and your clear plastic back window.

no because it is like 3m super clear thick tape. ncie job. now i think i'll buy one of those babies

your car says it's nfr but why do i see pink? do i need my eyes checked?

Wow, great job!

The pink is probably an artifact from the florescent lighting but maybe pink is the under "tone" of the New Formula. The car still looks great! In full sun I noticed that the car was a couple of shades deeper red and sparkled like a jewel.

Glad this little photo demo has swayed you into getting a pc. I was convinced I needed one by reading a similar thread that had step by step photos.

excellent job.. was wet sanding done prior to the PC ?

Yes I lubricated the 1500 sandpaper like I would a claybar when I took down the paint pimples. I used a strong solution of dishwashing liquid in a spray bottle and tried to maintain a back to front sanding motion using my thumb as the block.

As a detailing novice who loves my car's looks, the extreme number of missing paint flecks (some sand grain sized) became intolerable. To maintain an acceptable "look" to the car I had a couple choices:
I could repaint the front end (risk of color matching and high expense) or try to do the extreme makeover I ended up doing which if unsuccessful would have led to repainting anyways. I tested a small area to make sure it was do-able and to build confidence and the timely results really alleviated any misgivings I had in the back of my mind. The amount of pressure the pc exerts on the surface is tiny as the blue tape running down the center of the hood survived the process intact and untattered.

This was a VERY inexpensive fix to a very COMMON issue. Seeing is believing and I am a CONVERT to the pc process. The satisfaction of knowing that I was able to get these great results is priceless.

Obviously you need to have the time and energy it takes to do this yourself. I have a great chiropractor who takes care of me when I overdo it like in this project.

thanks.. I'm an advocate of wetsanding, but only use it for extreme cases.

there's nothing like it coupled with porter cable or cyclo use afterwards.

My only advice to all who are reading is not to get overly excited about wet sanding as part of the clear coat is actually "removed" and you can do more harm than good. So for those, who are getting inspired, try the PC route first.

I would never even imagine doing something like that to my car!!

Well done to you - you are NO novice

The cliche "sink or swim" really applies here....

I just kept digging myself a deeper hole and the pc left me smelling like a rose...

I am a novice with respect to car care etc but mechanically literate.
Very interesting thread, but can you show pictures of this Porter Cable and the various bits of hardware you used during the repair and polishing.

My 'go to work' car is chipped around the front, and up to now I had thought -leave it or have it resprayed - now it appears there is a viable alternative fo me.

Thanks

those are some of the most dramatic before/during and after-shots that I've ever seen.

you did a fantastic job and now I'm sold on the PC. before seeing this thread, I would've just bitten the bullet and gotten a repaint.

hell... I *did* bite the bullet, get my whole front repainted and then bought a clear bra (which was v. expensive).

I'm debating whether to get a bra or not still. If I do this again, I will get a sanding pad for the pc and use 2000 grit to prep before the orange pad. (edit: tried it and not worth the risk )

These are the tools I used btw


I got a second coat of zaino on today




The pc really allows you to get the mirror touch out of zaino since the finish is so perfect to start out with.

You still end up with visible paint blemishes but they are blended in pretty well. They are noticible from 1-2 feet. From 4 feet away you can't see the blemishes. The next time I attempt this,

So you recommend the 2000 grit? How do you wet sand? Lubricate the sand paper and go at it? I have a PC too. I need to get at some chips.

wet sand like you use a claybar. Lubricate the surface with dishsoap or your choice of spray and rub the nub down. I will get a small sanding pad w/2000 grit for my pc next time and smooth out the 1500 scuff marks before I polish the scuffs out with menzerna. (Edit: I tried the sandpaper on the pc and it's not worth the risk )

Wow, you are the man!!! I'd be scared to do anything like that! Looks great!

Great job. I've recently started using the PC myself and love it. I've been trying to pick out the best polish combination, and wondered how you liked the menzerna products. I want something that is going to be strong enough to take out wetsanding marks like you've done here. The intensive polish looks like it did a great job of taking them out, and then the final polish brought back the gloss and prepped the finish for zaino. When you said you had to go over the area 8-10 times with the intensive polish, was that just because the sanding marks had not been removed after a couple of passes? Do you think following the 1500 with 2000 grit will help with this?

I'm trying to get up the courage to wetsand too. I think I'll stick to doing it by hand though instead of using the PC, which you said you may try in the future. I'm just having horrible thoughts of the PC getting out of control... with sand paper attached!

Thanks for the great thread. It helps to have a visual when you're thinking of attempting this.

Yes that was 8-10 separate applications of polish where you work it until there is no product left to remove some of the scuff marks. It averaged about 5-7. The reason I will go with a prep 2000 wet sanding before polish next time is because some of scuffs have irregularities that at certain angles of flourescent light show up. I think an orbital prep would blend these irregularities out. (Edit: I tried the sandpaper on the pc and it's not worth the risk )

Of the menzerna products, the intensive polish really cut the swirls immediately in the paint that had no scuff marks so in the future that is what I would use for swirls and scuffs. The final polish didn't produce as dramatic affects, but I was in a hurry by that time in the process so that could have clouded my opinion then.

Now that I have familiarity with how the pc behaves, I am confident I could control it with sandpaper attached. (Edit: I tried the sandpaper on the pc and it's not worth the risk ) I would be hesitant on being too close to any odd curves or emblem as I noticed the pc doesn't get into the nooks and crannies very well.

Great Job. What is a porter cable? How do you use one? How expensive is an invisible bra and how can I find one? Any other suggests to prevent rock chips?

A pc (porter cable) is a random orbital sander/buffer. There are various color-coded pads that can be used on the pc that vary according to the job at hand. Various combinations of polish and pad provide different degrees of "cutting" power (amount of paint/clearcoat removed for every pass).

A clear bra is pretty much just a 6-9 mm clear vinyl protectant that you squegee onto a prepped paint job. Labor intensive and I think a well done job runs about 500-1000 bucks.

Typically questions like yours get you flamed for being too lazy to do a search on the subject. These topics have pretty much been covered 100's of times over the past 5 years...

A word of caution here guys. I have been detailing and wet sanding cars for 20 years. On factory paint you can do this ONE time. After a second time you will be through the clearcoat and have to repaint. Also, you never use a DA with sandpaper attached, this is only done to prep the surface for a repaint.

Also, do not try this amount of repair with pearl paints. Your car will look like it has chicken pox.

Go get yourself a product called Lanka ( will have to find the web site again). No sanding required. Fill the chip, let dry, wipe off with Lanka and done. No sanding needed and you save your clear coat.