04/05 S2K w/ 00-01 ECU - What r your thoughts?
06-23-2005, 03:43 PM
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04/05 S2K w/ 00-01 ECU - What r your thoughts?
Okay. I've been wanting to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Recently, some have been changing the ECU out on the 04/05's to a pre-04 ECU. I've heard some say it improves performance and I've heard some say it decreases performance.
I did the ECU swap on my 04 and it seemed to me that it increased performance. However, I do not take it up to 9k either. The highest I take it is 8500. Dyno charts have shown proven gains by about 13rwhp, which is substantial considering how cheap the modification is. Many are worried about piston speeds and if the valvetrain is capable of 9k. I know Honda lowered the redline for a reason, but what's everyone's thoughts on this mod? Is it worth it? What are the pros and cons?
I let a member on here - Importsport - drive my car during one of my meets and he said quote "Your cars pulls much harder than mine does in 1st gear." Of course that's only 1st gear too. I thought since the 00-01 ECU's ran rich that the 2.2L would just take that extra fuel and put it use while bumping up the redline a bit. I am completely happy with the performance I'm receiving from this ECU. The thing that made me create this thread is that I recently had a member tell me "It's hurting performance more than helping."
I did the ECU swap on my 04 and it seemed to me that it increased performance. However, I do not take it up to 9k either. The highest I take it is 8500. Dyno charts have shown proven gains by about 13rwhp, which is substantial considering how cheap the modification is. Many are worried about piston speeds and if the valvetrain is capable of 9k. I know Honda lowered the redline for a reason, but what's everyone's thoughts on this mod? Is it worth it? What are the pros and cons?
I let a member on here - Importsport - drive my car during one of my meets and he said quote "Your cars pulls much harder than mine does in 1st gear." Of course that's only 1st gear too. I thought since the 00-01 ECU's ran rich that the 2.2L would just take that extra fuel and put it use while bumping up the redline a bit. I am completely happy with the performance I'm receiving from this ECU. The thing that made me create this thread is that I recently had a member tell me "It's hurting performance more than helping."
06-23-2005, 04:00 PM
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From what I've seen it not only gives you a bit more power, but also allows you to rev to 9000rpm.
That said:
This is an UNPROVEN MOD and while you say you are only revving to 8500, how do you know? did you install a new tach? since your tach only goes to a certain rpm, you really have no idea that you are shifting at 8500, so BE CAREFUL!!!!
The reason this has some of us here concerned, is the fact that knowledgeable people such as UL and others have stated the bottom end on the F22 is NOT made to rev to 9000rpm. the rod angle not only increases side load on the piston walls, but puts 16% more stress on these parts at 9000rpm in the F22 vs the F20.
No one knows what kind of long term impact this will have on the life of the engine. and since this mod voids your warranty, you're screwed when/if something breaks. maybe it won't happen for 40,000 miles. or maybe it will only take 20,000. no one knows.
That said:
This is an UNPROVEN MOD and while you say you are only revving to 8500, how do you know? did you install a new tach? since your tach only goes to a certain rpm, you really have no idea that you are shifting at 8500, so BE CAREFUL!!!!
The reason this has some of us here concerned, is the fact that knowledgeable people such as UL and others have stated the bottom end on the F22 is NOT made to rev to 9000rpm. the rod angle not only increases side load on the piston walls, but puts 16% more stress on these parts at 9000rpm in the F22 vs the F20.
No one knows what kind of long term impact this will have on the life of the engine. and since this mod voids your warranty, you're screwed when/if something breaks. maybe it won't happen for 40,000 miles. or maybe it will only take 20,000. no one knows.
06-23-2005, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Jun 23 2005, 06:00 PM
From what I've seen it not only gives you a bit more power, but also allows you to rev to 9000rpm.
That said:
This is an UNPROVEN MOD and while you say you are only revving to 8500, how do you know? did you install a new tach? since your tach only goes to a certain rpm, you really have no idea that you are shifting at 8500, so BE CAREFUL!!!!
The reason this has some of us here concerned, is the fact that knowledgeable people such as UL and others have stated the bottom end on the F22 is NOT made to rev to 9000rpm. the rod angle not only increases side load on the piston walls, but puts 16% more stress on these parts at 9000rpm in the F22 vs the F20.
No one knows what kind of long term impact this will have on the life of the engine. and since this mod voids your warranty, you're screwed when/if something breaks. maybe it won't happen for 40,000 miles. or maybe it will only take 20,000. no one knows.
That said:
This is an UNPROVEN MOD and while you say you are only revving to 8500, how do you know? did you install a new tach? since your tach only goes to a certain rpm, you really have no idea that you are shifting at 8500, so BE CAREFUL!!!!
The reason this has some of us here concerned, is the fact that knowledgeable people such as UL and others have stated the bottom end on the F22 is NOT made to rev to 9000rpm. the rod angle not only increases side load on the piston walls, but puts 16% more stress on these parts at 9000rpm in the F22 vs the F20.
No one knows what kind of long term impact this will have on the life of the engine. and since this mod voids your warranty, you're screwed when/if something breaks. maybe it won't happen for 40,000 miles. or maybe it will only take 20,000. no one knows.
I guess it's too early to determine long term effects this mod may have. Billman 250's project has been running for a good while with this modification and not problems yet. Not saying there won't be, but just not yet.
I'm already out of warranty with the amount of miles on my car, so I figured might as well go ahead and do it anyways. I personally think the power dips off after 8500, but then again I could be wrong...
i want to gather some more info first.
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06-23-2005, 07:50 PM
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From what I have read and researched the ultimate combo is the 2.2 with an 00 ecu, early cam (so you get power to 9,000 and the heavier valve springs) and an early tranny for the higher ratio gears.
I am not worried about the piston load or the rods since I have eyeballed them and compared them to some aftermarket rods, etc on Civic and others that are made to turn 9,000 and these are still stouter.
That is exactly what I am putting in my Ultralite. I have the engine, ecu and tranny, now all I need is the cam and springs.
I am swapping the tranny with my 02 so that I get the lower ratios on my heavy S2000 and the higher ratios on the lighter (1200 lbs) Ultralite.
The stock 02 engine in the street Ultralite (1400 lbs) is still about 5.5 lb/hp and is faster than a Viper to about 130 but the extra torque of the 2.2 ought to make it much more powerful out of the corners
I am not worried about the piston load or the rods since I have eyeballed them and compared them to some aftermarket rods, etc on Civic and others that are made to turn 9,000 and these are still stouter.
That is exactly what I am putting in my Ultralite. I have the engine, ecu and tranny, now all I need is the cam and springs.
I am swapping the tranny with my 02 so that I get the lower ratios on my heavy S2000 and the higher ratios on the lighter (1200 lbs) Ultralite.
The stock 02 engine in the street Ultralite (1400 lbs) is still about 5.5 lb/hp and is faster than a Viper to about 130 but the extra torque of the 2.2 ought to make it much more powerful out of the corners
06-24-2005, 05:21 AM
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Take the car to the Performance Garage and put it on the rollers. Test both ECUs and see what the results are first-hand for your car. I'll be happy to meet you there since it's a short drive to Smyrna.
Tony
Tony
06-24-2005, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mem4720,Jun 24 2005, 09:11 AM
You could do the community a great service if you log WB02 readings with the ECU swap. I suspect that a good portion of the extra power comes from leaning out the mixture. My worry is that it may be TOO lean in some areas.
If someone is has a stock 2004+ car and $100 for dyno time, I'll loan out my 2002 ECU for the cause. If you're in the Detroit area, I'll help you get both ECU's mounted, so swapping cables will take only 1-2 minutes on the dyno. I'll also provide OBD-2 logging of the run via laptop. if we can find a 2000-2001 ECU, we could do all 3 back-to-back.
Does the dash work properly with the swap? Any other side effects?
If someone is has a stock 2004+ car and $100 for dyno time, I'll loan out my 2002 ECU for the cause. If you're in the Detroit area, I'll help you get both ECU's mounted, so swapping cables will take only 1-2 minutes on the dyno. I'll also provide OBD-2 logging of the run via laptop. if we can find a 2000-2001 ECU, we could do all 3 back-to-back.
Does the dash work properly with the swap? Any other side effects?
Luckily I only got 2 of my key's programmed and I still have one programmed for the old ECU... so I will be able to go to the dyno and test both ECU's. I won't be able to go to the dyno for at least a week. I'm going to Florida tomorrow and won't be back until the following Sunday.