davidc1

So, having only used an AEM EMS Series 2 on my '04, and thinking about switching, I don't quite get why with the Hondata KPro and the DoctTronics unit that I don't have to use a wideband 02 sensor.

I understand that the S2000 or and the K series ECU's don't use a wideband. But don't understand how we can use that? Don't we want a good tuning as possible? And what about using the RSX Type S ECU which I believe is a quasi wideband unit.

Can anyone point me to a sticky, primer or thread that talks about it? Or just educate me? Thanks all.

flanders

Not sure I fully understand your question, but with kpro v4 you have the option to do however you like.
There is no need for a wideband as you can run it with stock S2000 narrowband sensor, but in my point of view it's certainly recommended to get an aftermarket wideband instead.

K20iVTEC

I'm actually in the process of wiring my wide band into the kpro ecu right now. Kpro4 has analog/digital inputs so you can wire your wide band directly to the kpro ecu board. You can set up full closed loop o2 control for normal driving as well as full throttle...

flanders

Yes I'm personally using a PLX wideband connected to the digital input on the kpro4 board and it's been working great so far.
I got no other O2 sensors connected at all

On the Doctronic I got the impression that they do not have support for closed loop control using a wideband sensor.
Could very well be something the ad in the future though.

RAIN H8R

Kpro 1-2 (maybe 3 as well) us a stock secondary narrowband to control partial throttle running in closed loop operation. The wideband was used strictly for tuning via the ELD input

Kpro 4 (maybe 3 as well) has the option for multiple ways of running a wideband to the computer. Analog, digital, or ELD input. With the digital input (from a WB02 such as the PLX), you can have 1 o2 sensor on the car that runs the car at all times in closed loop operation.

I have Kpro 2 and run my analog 0-5v signal for my wideband through the ELD input. I run the stock narrowband o2 sensor for closed loop operation. Even if I had kpro4 and could run a single wideband on the car, I prefer to have an oem o2 sensor on teh car in case of failur. I use my WB02 to monitor how my car is running.

In fact, I just found out my wb02 is bad, the gauge itself failed. I couldn't imagine how shitty my car would have ran if I only had the wideband running it!

If you want a better understanding, goto Hondatas website and goto the Kpro help page, read up on the S2000 Kpro system.

If you want to get deep into this topic, PM me, and we can chat on the phone.

davidc1

Thanks Rain, I may do that.

And I'll go to Hondata's website to read up.

I just didn't quite get why a wideband was important for the AEM EMS, but not for the Hondata. I know the Hondata uses a stock ECU and the stock ECU can't handle a wideband, but I just couldn't get why it was so important with the AEM but not the Hondata.

I believe the DocTronics can also be purchased with the RSX TypeS ECU which uses some sort of wideband. Would that be of any significant benefit to spend a couple extra hundred bucks to be able use a wideband?

flanders

Where did you get this information from? It sounds like some kind of preconception.
The first revisions of Kpro did not have wideband support so that might expain why "it wasn't important".

For S2000 both the Hondata Kpro and Doctronic use the same RSX Type-S ecu, this ecu uses a semi wideband O2 sensor stock.
Kpro is not wired to be able to use the RSX wideband but I guess it could be, it does however support aftermarket wideband sensors.
I only looked briefly at the Doctronic but from my understanding it only supports datalogging for wideband sensors.

davidc1

My impression of the Doctronic was that it uses the regular RSX ECU, with an option to use the RSX TypeS ECU instead.

flanders

You could be right, looking at the picture on the Ballade site it does seem to be a PND ecu which is from the base model RSX.

RAIN H8R

To keep it simple. Lets assume you will buy Kpro brand new, as a version 4.

Kpro uses an rsx type s ecu from a 02-04 car. The mainboard (motherboard) is the RSX portion of the ecu, Hondata modifys the motherboard so you can plug in (press on) a daughterboard (the kpro 4 daughter board). This daughter board has 2 pig tails for a variety of options the Kpro supports. (E85, digital input, AIM dashes, etc)


The kpro4 ecu system allows you to wire in an aftermarket wideband o2 sensor. You can wire this into the ecu 3 different ways: The ELD input pin on one of the 4 connectors that plug into the ecu, as one of the 8 analog inputs (A0-a7 on the pigtail), or on the digital input (PlX products are supported!). All 3 ways allow you tune the ecu. Once tuning is complete in open loop, you can choose which way you want your ecu to run your car in closed loop. You can use the digital wideband input and have only the wideband o2 run your car. Or you can run the factory narrowband o2 sensor and still have a wideband wired in but the wideband would not be used to influence how your car runs in open loop.

This is a very in depth conversation with many different opinions depending on the tuner/person.

I prefer to use the stock narrowband o2 sensor to run my S2000 in closed loop. I have a wideband gauge in my car, and I monitor how my car is running by looking at the gauge when I feel something is wrong. I feel better knowing that if my narrowband o2 sensor fails, it will throw a CEL and ill know something is up, but chances are, Ill see their is a problem before the ECU tells me. I am leary about relying on an aftermarket wideband o2 sensor. They seem to fail often, and I am unsure how the car would behave if I am relying on that wideband to run my car in closed loop.

On a positive note for wideband o2 having fully control in closed loop, I believe there are some fail safe settings you can dial in for if it fails, but I have stuck with what works for me.

Ultimately, you need to talk to a tuner about this before you do anything.