pfab - gtx3076r - stock block - evans tuned
11-01-2011, 03:21 AM
#21
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Great numbers mate ive got a fullblown sidewinder with a gt3076r i was hopeing on getting to 500whp like you but i dont think its possible without pushing 18psi etc.What do you think a gtx3582r 1.06ar would do at 15psi thinking off swoping it out befor i get tuned ,also how were your injectors doing at that power % wise cheers Lee 
the gtx35r 1.06 would prolly give you a better chance but you would be sacrifing alot spool for alil more power
im honestly still surprised i was over 500
about the injectors, i honestly dont know what they were at, jeff never mentioned so im assuming they werent anywhere close to be maxed out
11-01-2011, 05:23 AM
#23
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^ Wrong
I have seen this happing more and more over the forums, and many are claiming that the Dyna-pack Hub dyno's read higher than any other type. Some claim that they are reading flywheel horsepower, others say they just read higher due to having no wheels to measure. On our dyna-packs they read consistently 6-9% lower than a dyno-jet. And very very near the same as a mustang dyno. HOWEVER, this is when properly setup, and the dyno operator is honest with the details. Read further and I will explain.
Readings and results--
Its pretty easy to spot fake inflated dyna-pack dyno charts, but only if the person posting it will show the sidebar with the specs. If its just a chart, I really never buy it, but there still may be a few things to look for. Here is why. A dyna pack can show actual rear wheel horsepower and torque........ OR ESTIMATED flywheel horsepower! The estimated horsepower is a percentage the DYNO OPERATOR punches in!! It can be 2% or even over 50%!! This is the beginning of where things go south. And the reason for the huge misunderstandings. I will show you how to spot one of these below.
A proper chart--
Okay first of all here is a complete trustworthy dyno chart. Why? You will notice it shows the sidebar of information. If you have this sidebar, its near impossible to hide inflated numbers.
So you want the sidebar, and make sure its SAE correction. This makes a car in hot or cold, high altitude or low altitude even with each other. I circled both things to look for in red.
Now that we have that, here is what everything should look like. Now notice in the sidebar it will say "axle power" and just "power". If no additional corrections have been added, then both will be exactly the same.
Here is another dyno chart with corrections for "power". Notice I circled them both and they are different. In this case it was 10% correction. This dyno chart can easily made into a inflated one. I still have selected "axle power" however to show on the graph. SO that means in this case the horsepower is accurate. I could easily select "power" and the graph will then be fake.
Now this is a bit complex to explain, but dyna-packs read actual rear wheel torque. Which means the number is going to be WAY higher than anyone is used to. Why? Gear reductions. Now every other dyno will display flywheel torque, with drivetrain losses. Dyna-pack will too, but only without corrections. Here is how to double check. I circled this cars actual rear wheel torque. Which is 1051 rwtq. If you take that number and divide by its gear ratio (4.10:1) you will get flywheel torque with drivetrain loses. Do the math, and you get 257rwtq like we are all used to seeing. If you check the faulty chart however, you will see in the side bar under "Torque" it says 270. That is again the 10% correction being applied. And the torque line is a false inflated one!
Now finally, if no sidebar is presented, there is a few more things to help a bit when checking it.
First see if the torque and horsepower are scaled the same left and right. If so, the torque and horsepower should cross at 5252.
Once that is established, the only thing left to maybe save the chart is make sure it says "axle power" somewhere in the chart. As I circled in red. If it just says "torque" and "power", I WOULD BE SKEPTICAL. As the dyno user could have entered anything. Maybe 10-15% for showing the estimate flywheel power and torque, or even just 5% to show a bit of an edge over everyone else.
I know this was a long post, but I hope maybe it laid out the issues, and helps a few distinguish between real and fake dyna-pack charts.
Readings and results--
Its pretty easy to spot fake inflated dyna-pack dyno charts, but only if the person posting it will show the sidebar with the specs. If its just a chart, I really never buy it, but there still may be a few things to look for. Here is why. A dyna pack can show actual rear wheel horsepower and torque........ OR ESTIMATED flywheel horsepower! The estimated horsepower is a percentage the DYNO OPERATOR punches in!! It can be 2% or even over 50%!! This is the beginning of where things go south. And the reason for the huge misunderstandings. I will show you how to spot one of these below.
A proper chart--
Okay first of all here is a complete trustworthy dyno chart. Why? You will notice it shows the sidebar of information. If you have this sidebar, its near impossible to hide inflated numbers.
So you want the sidebar, and make sure its SAE correction. This makes a car in hot or cold, high altitude or low altitude even with each other. I circled both things to look for in red.
Now that we have that, here is what everything should look like. Now notice in the sidebar it will say "axle power" and just "power". If no additional corrections have been added, then both will be exactly the same.
Here is another dyno chart with corrections for "power". Notice I circled them both and they are different. In this case it was 10% correction. This dyno chart can easily made into a inflated one. I still have selected "axle power" however to show on the graph. SO that means in this case the horsepower is accurate. I could easily select "power" and the graph will then be fake.
Now this is a bit complex to explain, but dyna-packs read actual rear wheel torque. Which means the number is going to be WAY higher than anyone is used to. Why? Gear reductions. Now every other dyno will display flywheel torque, with drivetrain losses. Dyna-pack will too, but only without corrections. Here is how to double check. I circled this cars actual rear wheel torque. Which is 1051 rwtq. If you take that number and divide by its gear ratio (4.10:1) you will get flywheel torque with drivetrain loses. Do the math, and you get 257rwtq like we are all used to seeing. If you check the faulty chart however, you will see in the side bar under "Torque" it says 270. That is again the 10% correction being applied. And the torque line is a false inflated one!
Now finally, if no sidebar is presented, there is a few more things to help a bit when checking it.
First see if the torque and horsepower are scaled the same left and right. If so, the torque and horsepower should cross at 5252.
Once that is established, the only thing left to maybe save the chart is make sure it says "axle power" somewhere in the chart. As I circled in red. If it just says "torque" and "power", I WOULD BE SKEPTICAL. As the dyno user could have entered anything. Maybe 10-15% for showing the estimate flywheel power and torque, or even just 5% to show a bit of an edge over everyone else.
I know this was a long post, but I hope maybe it laid out the issues, and helps a few distinguish between real and fake dyna-pack charts.
11-01-2011, 05:51 AM
#24
Registered User
I remember when I was tuned and made the same exact number as this poster 509whp/357wtq, at the same psi, on a stock block, people were claiming b.s. This is even on another dyno, but still interesting to see my numbers weren't a fluke.
Nice setup, really miss my old one.
Max out that 30r, and rape face on the street, not worth the upgrade/hassle for more more imo.
Be happy with what you have.
Nice setup, really miss my old one.
Max out that 30r, and rape face on the street, not worth the upgrade/hassle for more more imo.
Be happy with what you have.
11-01-2011, 06:10 AM
#25
Registered User
I remember when I was tuned and made the same exact number as this poster 509whp/357wtq, at the same psi, on a stock block, people were claiming b.s. This is even on another dyno, but still interesting to see my numbers weren't a fluke.
Nice setup, really miss my old one.
Max out that 30r, and rape face on the street, not worth the upgrade/hassle for more more imo.
Be happy with what you have.
Nice setup, really miss my old one.
Max out that 30r, and rape face on the street, not worth the upgrade/hassle for more more imo.
Be happy with what you have.
I always think about you when I think of when I almost blew my shit up on the dyno going after 600, (I remember you saying be happy with what I have lol.) Anymore money I spend on the car will be suspension (it's all over the road). I think 550 pump and 600 on Q is as high as I want to go. I always did think your 30r setup was the best of both worlds. Whats the cars status now?
11-01-2011, 08:24 AM
#27
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I remember when I was tuned and made the same exact number as this poster 509whp/357wtq, at the same psi, on a stock block, people were claiming b.s. This is even on another dyno, but still interesting to see my numbers weren't a fluke.
Nice setup, really miss my old one.
Max out that 30r, and rape face on the street, not worth the upgrade/hassle for more more imo.
Be happy with what you have.
Nice setup, really miss my old one.
Max out that 30r, and rape face on the street, not worth the upgrade/hassle for more more imo.
Be happy with what you have.
my plan was to uprade to id2000s and double pumper and max out that turbo on e98 this spring.....im now thinking of switching to a new project, one of those over priced lancers
11-01-2011, 08:28 AM
#28
lets not let this post turn into a dynapack thread. we all have our opinions on the subject, as do i, but this guy just wants to show what his car did in evans hands. take the dyno for what its worth and do whatever benchinomics math you wanna do to it.
OT, i can see the boost creeping up in the dyno chart, if you look at mine at the time mine was setup to climb to 14. now i tweaked it to hit and hold 13. one day i will make it back to the dyno to see how it affected midrange, but i bet it went up a bit.
OT, i can see the boost creeping up in the dyno chart, if you look at mine at the time mine was setup to climb to 14. now i tweaked it to hit and hold 13. one day i will make it back to the dyno to see how it affected midrange, but i bet it went up a bit.
11-01-2011, 11:57 AM
#29
OT: Very flat torque curve, that turbo has quite a bit more left in it! Where is your wastegate routed?
I'd be curious to see the injector utilization as well!
11-01-2011, 12:31 PM
#30
Originally Posted by camuman' timestamp='1320164937' post='21118967
lets not let this post turn into a dynapack thread. we all have our opinions on the subject, as do i, but this guy just wants to show what his car did in evans hands. take the dyno for what its worth and do whatever benchinomics math you wanna do to it.
OT: Very flat torque curve, that turbo has quite a bit more left in it! Where is your wastegate routed?
I'd be curious to see the injector utilization as well!
turns out mine wasnt the typical boost creep. on wastegate only it will hit and hold 10psi to redline. but when mase was setting up my boost control i asked for boost by speed. on the dyno it acted decent, but now i guess that aws because of the load the dyno was putting on the car.
so when he set it up he got it to hit 14 psi up top, but the system is closed loop so it was slowly tweaking boost until it got to the desired boost level.
i asked on the forums how to fix this, and wadzi hit me up and let me call him. he spent like 30 mins on the phone with me explaining the three tables i needed to mess with and what they did and how they worked. then i found an empty road and did like 20 pulls dialing it in. im running on a aem ems v1 box.
took a bit but i got it so that now if i change the boost target in the boost by speed box it will hit it no matter what i pick above 10 psi. before, it would always just slowly climb till it hit it, and sometimes it would just hit the wastegate bost and then never raise it, that was really annoying. now it spools to the target and stays there.
