Tracking Stock Car - Need Oil Cooler?
02-03-2017, 12:16 PM
#31
Regarding pressures, very hot oil results in a pressure drop also. I compared my oil pressure before and after oil cooler and I'm getting very similar pressure (before and after oil cooler), but with cooler oil. Putzing around the street, I don't see a significant pressure drop as the thermostat doesn't appear to open enough to affect the pressure substantially.
02-04-2017, 09:46 PM
#33
Well let me tell you what does kill an S2000 motor. Running out of oil. When you introduce multiple fittings and multiple lines into the oiling system you are multiplying the risk of an oil leak and a catastrophic motor failure. Adding that cheap oil cooler might mean peace of mind to some, but it is added complexity that is otherwise unnecessary to me. I have seen plenty of oil cooler leaks on multiple cars.
Keep it simple. As you add more and more things, you introduce additional points for failure.
Listen to anorexicpoodle. I, like him, tracked my s2k stock for 2 years in SoCal - about 24 track days - no oil cooler. I now have ~50 track days on the same car, modified (stock power). I still do not have an oil cooler; however, I just swapped out to a dual pass radiator.
I have no plans to add an oil cooler in the future.
02-04-2017, 10:32 PM
#34
just to be clear, since a lot of us are on totally different ball parks. are you guys saying a na s2000 will not need a oil cooler for 20 fun point by group (where you have fast laps and slow laps) or wont need one for 20 mins of balls to the wall na race group?
02-05-2017, 09:16 AM
#35
While I'm new to the platform so don't have any data to support whether it's needed as others have mentioned the extra complexity is a risk. Case in point, at an event last year, a guy with an S2000 and a newly installed oil cooler (no idea the make) blew a hose on track. To make matters worse he kept driving while spewing oil, on the driving line! Needless to say he did not make many friends with fellow event attendees as we had to wait for the oil slick to be cleaned up and he was even less popular with the track owners since the track had just recently been repaved. I believe they tried sticking him with the clean up bill.
02-05-2017, 09:20 AM
#36
I just did the same AIM oil pressure and temp mod to the Solo DL. I'll report back my oil temps while on track for a SC car. Chuckwalla in 2 weeks!
02-06-2017, 05:25 AM
#37
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I am saying that any NA S2000 running 20 minute sessions will be fine without an oil cooler whether that is HPDE, time trials, or time attack. If I was running a Honda Challenge racecar and doing 45 minute races I would probably add one. I run a turbo S2000, so I do have an oil cooler, but mine is run on a low pressure separate oiling system with an electric oil pump for the turbo, so it does not affect my oil pressure at all.
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S2000_916 (02-07-2017)
02-17-2017, 08:28 AM
#38
ap1 vs ap2 oil temps also deserves mention , ap1s have to have much higher temps
02-17-2017, 10:44 PM
#39
02-18-2017, 10:23 AM
#40
Registered User
I will try to add some info here and I am sure I know at some point I had this back and forth with @King Tut.
After spending a few years testing oils, pressure, analysis this is what I can add.
1. Modern chemically engineered "true" synthetics don't break down from heat even up until 280F, you won't see anything on an oil analysis if you have a healthy motor.
2. High end oils like any oils do however thin out and lose viscosity the hotter they get.
3. Oil pressure loss is the result of high oil temperature, as a 30 weight oil hits 245F it performs more like a 20 weight.
4. Oil pressure is relative to oil temperature and low pressure is the real killer not oil temps.
So the debate is easier with the S2000. We have 16 years of people punishing this car, when I asked the guys at CSG about oil temps and pressures they said:
"Oil temps get hot but it's a Honda"
After dicking around with the 86 I found much of what King Tut says is true, I CONSTANTLY was checking oil lines, fittings pressures and it became a nightmare. After I found leaks I was even more paranoid.
Conversely if you are running extended hard core sessions with the S2000 running group 4 oil and you are seeing 275F+ temps you need to be checking oil pressures or just backing off it's just not smart.
I would say at that point if you can't back off you are the person who should be running a cooler.
My main advice is if you are running longer than 25 minute sessions you should absolutely be monitoring PRESSURES, and temps to know for sure if a cooler is needed.
If you choose to do a cooler know you still have to check temps and pressures along with inspection of fittings, plate, barbs, lines, and cooler before and after every run.
After spending a few years testing oils, pressure, analysis this is what I can add.
1. Modern chemically engineered "true" synthetics don't break down from heat even up until 280F, you won't see anything on an oil analysis if you have a healthy motor.
2. High end oils like any oils do however thin out and lose viscosity the hotter they get.
3. Oil pressure loss is the result of high oil temperature, as a 30 weight oil hits 245F it performs more like a 20 weight.
4. Oil pressure is relative to oil temperature and low pressure is the real killer not oil temps.
So the debate is easier with the S2000. We have 16 years of people punishing this car, when I asked the guys at CSG about oil temps and pressures they said:
"Oil temps get hot but it's a Honda"
After dicking around with the 86 I found much of what King Tut says is true, I CONSTANTLY was checking oil lines, fittings pressures and it became a nightmare. After I found leaks I was even more paranoid.
Conversely if you are running extended hard core sessions with the S2000 running group 4 oil and you are seeing 275F+ temps you need to be checking oil pressures or just backing off it's just not smart.
I would say at that point if you can't back off you are the person who should be running a cooler.
My main advice is if you are running longer than 25 minute sessions you should absolutely be monitoring PRESSURES, and temps to know for sure if a cooler is needed.
If you choose to do a cooler know you still have to check temps and pressures along with inspection of fittings, plate, barbs, lines, and cooler before and after every run.