When beauty meet the beast
08-24-2002, 03:18 AM
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Hi all
I'm talking about a meeting of my slightly modded Impreza Turbo(de-cat down pipe and drop in air filter) and Tif's stock S2000 in otley and Pool Bank(north Yorkshire) on Thursday night.
Seeing the two cars side by side in the car park of the Pub made it easy to come up with the title of this post.
We decided to meet up because I'm currently selling my Impreza and although I've driven the "S" I wanted to have a good look without a sales man stood looking at me and also to see how rapid it was in the hands of a driver who was used to the heady power delivery and knew how to get the best from the car. My main consideration was the in gear times and how they compared to my Impreza.(purely in the name of science you understand)
I wasn't disappointed.
We meet near the M62 and set off to a pub in Pool Bank, plenty of slow traffic so we took it steady. Then the traffic cleared as we came off a 2nd gear round-about. I could see tif was willing, and I floored it, the 4 wheel drive did it's effective and dull thing and lurched me from the round-about. I was in the right gear and rev range and I couldn't have got a better line. Roundabout's are the Impreza's "thing" and I've left lots of expensive machinery in my wake in the past. Looked in my mirror expecting tif's sliver dream machine dropping back, but it wasn't, IT WAS GAINING
This isn't in the script.
Another time heading along Otley Old Road we were traveling at a 'brisk' pace and we came to a bend, I had to lift, the handling of the Impeza gets a bit twitchy at higher speeds. Looked in the mirror and it was clear Tif hadn't lifted and was catching me fast.
Then the usual thing happen, it turned from great sunny evening to a rainy night and the conditions turned to favor the Impreza, but most of the time the "S" didn't have any problems. I was going in to corners at 8/10 ths and the S didn't have to slow down and was right behind me..........apart from once. We came up a rain soaked hill which had a round-about half way up the hill . The round-about was level ground, so the camber change as you entred the roundabout and left it, to continue up the hill. I've blasted through here a few times and know the line. Exited the round-about and had a quick glance in the mirror and Tif had dropped back.
He later told me he had a bit of a tank slapper. Which is hardly surprising in view of the conditions.
Overall I was very impressed with speed the S can carry in the wet and dry and thought he'd be tippy toeing around the twists, but he wasn't at all.
The only thing I regent is that Tif didn't lead and he would have dictated the pace, I think in the dry he'd have pulled away, especially at 60+ mph speeds
I found out everything I wanted know and more,
Cheers Chris
I'm talking about a meeting of my slightly modded Impreza Turbo(de-cat down pipe and drop in air filter) and Tif's stock S2000 in otley and Pool Bank(north Yorkshire) on Thursday night.
Seeing the two cars side by side in the car park of the Pub made it easy to come up with the title of this post.
We decided to meet up because I'm currently selling my Impreza and although I've driven the "S" I wanted to have a good look without a sales man stood looking at me and also to see how rapid it was in the hands of a driver who was used to the heady power delivery and knew how to get the best from the car. My main consideration was the in gear times and how they compared to my Impreza.(purely in the name of science you understand)
I wasn't disappointed.
We meet near the M62 and set off to a pub in Pool Bank, plenty of slow traffic so we took it steady. Then the traffic cleared as we came off a 2nd gear round-about. I could see tif was willing, and I floored it, the 4 wheel drive did it's effective and dull thing and lurched me from the round-about. I was in the right gear and rev range and I couldn't have got a better line. Roundabout's are the Impreza's "thing" and I've left lots of expensive machinery in my wake in the past. Looked in my mirror expecting tif's sliver dream machine dropping back, but it wasn't, IT WAS GAINING
This isn't in the script.Another time heading along Otley Old Road we were traveling at a 'brisk' pace and we came to a bend, I had to lift, the handling of the Impeza gets a bit twitchy at higher speeds. Looked in the mirror and it was clear Tif hadn't lifted and was catching me fast.
Then the usual thing happen, it turned from great sunny evening to a rainy night and the conditions turned to favor the Impreza, but most of the time the "S" didn't have any problems. I was going in to corners at 8/10 ths and the S didn't have to slow down and was right behind me..........apart from once. We came up a rain soaked hill which had a round-about half way up the hill . The round-about was level ground, so the camber change as you entred the roundabout and left it, to continue up the hill. I've blasted through here a few times and know the line. Exited the round-about and had a quick glance in the mirror and Tif had dropped back.
He later told me he had a bit of a tank slapper. Which is hardly surprising in view of the conditions.
Overall I was very impressed with speed the S can carry in the wet and dry and thought he'd be tippy toeing around the twists, but he wasn't at all.
The only thing I regent is that Tif didn't lead and he would have dictated the pace, I think in the dry he'd have pulled away, especially at 60+ mph speeds
I found out everything I wanted know and more,
Cheers Chris
08-24-2002, 03:31 AM
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good write up Adam!
It was a lot of fun trying to keep up with the scooby but its always easier to follow than lead. We went for a spin in the Imprezza later on and i was gob smacked at the capability of the chassis, it really takes a lot of adverse factors to get the front end unstuck to understeer, 95% of the time the power is dleivered to the ground in a non stop slug of torque - impressive!
In the light and on dry tarmac it would have been a great contest, as it was picking out a route in the wet with adverse camber uphill roundabouts just tipped the balance a teensy bit towards the Imprezza
It was a lot of fun trying to keep up with the scooby but its always easier to follow than lead. We went for a spin in the Imprezza later on and i was gob smacked at the capability of the chassis, it really takes a lot of adverse factors to get the front end unstuck to understeer, 95% of the time the power is dleivered to the ground in a non stop slug of torque - impressive!
In the light and on dry tarmac it would have been a great contest, as it was picking out a route in the wet with adverse camber uphill roundabouts just tipped the balance a teensy bit towards the Imprezza
08-24-2002, 03:47 AM
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Good stuff!!! :
I can get really pissed off with people who bleat about the lack of power in the S2000. It's always there at the drop of a cog (or two) and it's there by the bucket full! It's not a lazy drivers car, but for the people who revel in using that gear stick and rev range, the car really is in a class of it's own. The car was designed for enthusiastic busy driving, and if that's not your bag you're better off looking at something else.
:I can get really pissed off with people who bleat about the lack of power in the S2000. It's always there at the drop of a cog (or two) and it's there by the bucket full! It's not a lazy drivers car, but for the people who revel in using that gear stick and rev range, the car really is in a class of it's own. The car was designed for enthusiastic busy driving, and if that's not your bag you're better off looking at something else.
08-24-2002, 03:59 AM
#4
Originally posted by Cedric Tomkinson
I can get really pissed off with people who bleat about the lack of power in the S2000. It's always there at the drop of a cog (or two) and it's there by the bucket full! It's not a lazy drivers car, but for the people who revel in using that gear stick and rev range, the car really is in a class of it's own. The car was designed for enthusiastic busy driving, and if that's not your bag you're better off looking at something else.
I can get really pissed off with people who bleat about the lack of power in the S2000. It's always there at the drop of a cog (or two) and it's there by the bucket full! It's not a lazy drivers car, but for the people who revel in using that gear stick and rev range, the car really is in a class of it's own. The car was designed for enthusiastic busy driving, and if that's not your bag you're better off looking at something else.
08-24-2002, 05:19 AM
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Yep, new geometry, brand new S02 fronts and 3500 mile old rears. The new fronts have reset the car to a neutral turn in (previously turn in understeer) and pushed the balance back to mild power oversteer on demand 
It really was fine in the wet aside from the one roundabout wherre I got on it too early, got a slide on corrected but then the LSD did a balancing act with the back end seeming to move side to side a little under power. It did its job though and kept the car in a straight line and the power down!
It really was fine in the wet aside from the one roundabout wherre I got on it too early, got a slide on corrected but then the LSD did a balancing act with the back end seeming to move side to side a little under power. It did its job though and kept the car in a straight line and the power down!
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08-24-2002, 02:29 PM
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that was a great post - interesting comparison. My wife banned me from getting the Impreza for the point you make on the looks!
For the comparison of the performance of the cars, one thing never printed in the stats pages of the auto-mags is power available at the wheels.
S2000 has something like 200, +- 5hp at the wheels. I have never seen a figure for an Impreza.
4WD provides a huge advantage when levels of grip are low or the engine hp very high +350hp - however there is a disadvantage of additional power sap through the more complex transmission and the extra weight it adds to the car. So in outright acceleration in dry conditions, the S2000 must have the edge - more available power/torque and less weight - the pendulum only swinging to the Sub when the conditions get hairy,.
One other benefit of the S2000 versus a saloon is the lower driving position - sitting "in" the car rather than "on" the car makes a big difference to the feeling of control especially at higher cornering speeds.
For the comparison of the performance of the cars, one thing never printed in the stats pages of the auto-mags is power available at the wheels.
S2000 has something like 200, +- 5hp at the wheels. I have never seen a figure for an Impreza.
4WD provides a huge advantage when levels of grip are low or the engine hp very high +350hp - however there is a disadvantage of additional power sap through the more complex transmission and the extra weight it adds to the car. So in outright acceleration in dry conditions, the S2000 must have the edge - more available power/torque and less weight - the pendulum only swinging to the Sub when the conditions get hairy,.
One other benefit of the S2000 versus a saloon is the lower driving position - sitting "in" the car rather than "on" the car makes a big difference to the feeling of control especially at higher cornering speeds.
08-25-2002, 02:39 AM
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Thanks for the comments guys
Tif,
I felt like was leading you into danger sometimes and didn't like it. I can think of nothing worse than saying we meet up for a blast and one of us got hurt or mangled our cars, but any time your on the RIGHTSIDE of the pennines give me a ring.
Kobe,
I think power at the wheels is something like 180, not sure? In outright acceleration Evo mag says
Impreza 0-60 in 5.4 secs and 0-100 in 14.6
Honda S2000 0-60 in 5.5 and 0-100 in 14.6
So there's nothing in it off the line, the Impreza use's it high traction to get really good leaps off the line, however once rolling it will be caught by the S up to hundred and pasted as you get faster. As for power and torque the bhp of the Impreza is rated at 215, but when it's dynoed it's more like 230bhp, but this might be the dyno just being generous, additionally torque is 220 lb/ft at about 3500 revs. Have a look at these dyno charts. http://dyno.scoobynet.co.uk/PEindex/uk.htm
Also belive it or not the S is 1260 kgs and the Impreza is less at 1235kgs. The Impeza doesn't really need loads of power due to great fool poof handling and 250bhp Impreza's are a match for 400bhp+ Cosworths as long as it's not on the motorway. It's so easy to drive fast and even some one as ham fisted as my self can make unbelievable rapid progress with the minimum of fuss and skill. I think this is it's ultimate down fall really.
Until next time
Tif,
I felt like was leading you into danger sometimes and didn't like it. I can think of nothing worse than saying we meet up for a blast and one of us got hurt or mangled our cars, but any time your on the RIGHTSIDE
of the pennines give me a ring.Kobe,
I think power at the wheels is something like 180, not sure? In outright acceleration Evo mag says
Impreza 0-60 in 5.4 secs and 0-100 in 14.6
Honda S2000 0-60 in 5.5 and 0-100 in 14.6
So there's nothing in it off the line, the Impreza use's it high traction to get really good leaps off the line, however once rolling it will be caught by the S up to hundred and pasted as you get faster. As for power and torque the bhp of the Impreza is rated at 215, but when it's dynoed it's more like 230bhp, but this might be the dyno just being generous, additionally torque is 220 lb/ft at about 3500 revs. Have a look at these dyno charts. http://dyno.scoobynet.co.uk/PEindex/uk.htm
Also belive it or not the S is 1260 kgs and the Impreza is less at 1235kgs. The Impeza doesn't really need loads of power due to great fool poof handling and 250bhp Impreza's are a match for 400bhp+ Cosworths as long as it's not on the motorway. It's so easy to drive fast and even some one as ham fisted as my self can make unbelievable rapid progress with the minimum of fuss and skill. I think this is it's ultimate down fall really.
Until next time
08-27-2002, 03:00 AM
#10
Registered User
given those stats - Honda need to get the S2000 on a diet, since it is only a 2 seater cabrio.
Rather than getting more power as most people wish for, they should offer an S2000lite lots more Al to replace the steel parts and ditch the luxury items such as electric windows, roof and aircon. I think Porsche did this regularly and still found buyers despite a price hike over regular 911.
Rather than getting more power as most people wish for, they should offer an S2000lite lots more Al to replace the steel parts and ditch the luxury items such as electric windows, roof and aircon. I think Porsche did this regularly and still found buyers despite a price hike over regular 911.