Kings performance Rebuilt built engine.
06-21-2015, 03:24 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Kings performance Rebuilt built engine.
A couple of years ago I decided to go from Supercharged to turbocharged on my S2000.I knew Kings performance had a good reputation for well built fast cars.I got I touch with Fernando and dealt with him exclusively.
I discussed my needs with him and decided to go for the 850 hp turbo kit,realising that all my drivetrain components would need updating along the way......very expensive but what the heck?.Just about then Fernando decided to part out his 8 second race car and offered me amongst other things his Engine.I was informed it had done just 1000 miles since being built.So I asked him to put new rings and shells and a head gasket on it,which he agreed to do.
Fast forward to it arriving over here in the UK,first thing I noticed was how tatty and used the engine looked.So I cleaned it up and painted it so it would look nice in my engine bay,as it was purely a street car looking good was important.This was the beginning of what was going to be quite a long project build so I asked him the best way to keep the engine good and stop any internal deterioration.I was told by him to remove the plus and spray wd40 into each cylinder then rotate the engine a couple of revolutions every few weeks.which is what I did for the whole time it was fitted.
When it came to fitting I found 7 stripped bolt holes,3 engine/gearbox,1 engine mount ,and 3 sump pan bolts.I helicoil end all these then carried on.as my car was a DBW and the engine was a none DBW I needed to change the cam and crank trigger wheels.On removing the rocker cover I found 2 cam carriers completely snapped and needing replacement.
Fast forward again to start up.I had a Motec M800 gold ecu fitted and loaded my car yet un run onto a low loader to transport it to my tuner....170 miles away,so I never started the engine upto this point.My tuner builds time attack Evos so is happy working on turbo installations.He got the car running and noticed it was smoking a bit but proceed to do other work on the car untill he was ready to put it on the dyno.My tuner decided to change the oil before putting it on the dyno.....the sump plug was covered in metal filings,further investigation showed sever knock damage to the top af the Pistons and deep scoring of the cylinder bores.
I got intouch with Fernado and sent pictures of the damage,after blaming me and every other option including the UK weather he offered to take it back and credit to him pay all the expenses incurred.So it was sent back and unfortunately the block was badly damaged by the shipping company... Beyond repair.So a new Benson sleeved block was provided and machined to take the Pistons.It was then sent back to me as a brand new built 850 hp engine........But when pressed Fernando the told me that the badly det damaged Pistons had been reused.
I thought at this point that they knew what they were doing and asked for the oil return not to be fitted to the girdle as I had the front cover machined to accept the oil return.They didn't fit the oil return but the 1 inch hole was still machined into the Girdle?????First job was to get that welded up then make the engine look good before fitting.
After fitting the engine it was filled with Mineral Oil ready for the 1000 mile breaking in period,also it had a startup map on the ecu but I still decided to put it on a low loader rather than driving the car to the tuner.On start up the engine was very noisy, which was worrying.My tuner said it sounded like piston slap.
I carefully run the car in doing 3 oil changes during the running in period just to be safe,the sump plug was clear of any metal filings which made me feel better.So Tuesday 16th of June it went on the dyno for the big power tune.We were looking a 2 bar boost,around 700 hp.
Initially it made 80 hp less than the stock motor I had fitted last year at the same boost.But as it was a low compression 2.2 so wasn't uduly worried.Once upto 1 bar boost it blew the dipstick out and started to eject oil out all over the inside of the hood and windshield.plus the piston slap was frighteningly noisy.
My tuner was nervous about putting anymore boost throught the motor because he was afraid the engine would blow up on the dyno......that is the situation at the moment.My tuner thinks the car may or may not be safe to run as is with lower boost.
I informed Fernando via whatsapp of the situation last Wednesday,The very first thing he did by way of a response was to send me around 10 videos of his cars on the drag strip.He then proceed to talk to me like I'm 5 years old and blaming absolutly everything and everybody for the engine issues.
He asked for a leak down and compression check plus a video of the oil ejecting from the engine.I told him I'm not with the car as I had to get a train home....as I mentioned I live 170 miles from my tuner.Then he told me to get the tuner to do the above tests.
I have thrown so much money and time at that engine and its issues I just can't be bothered to spend another penny on it.When the first engine failed I had to pay the tuner to remove that engine,source a replacement stock angina which I then had to pay to have fitted and setup/ tuned.
Once I got the rebuilt built engine back I then had to remove the stock engine,paint and make nice the new engine and fit it myself.I then took it on a low loader back to the tuner for a running in map.I put the car on the road after our British winter and carefully run it in.Which takes us to the point where we are now.
This may or may not be of relevance but it is important in the process.I was diagnosed with Cancer in November 2013,almost exactly the time the first engine failed.I was off work so not earning any wages.I had to have radiotherapy which I had when the the rebuilt engine arrived back from the States.So still recovering from Radiotherapy and not having a lot of money to pay somebody to swap engines I did the swap myself......this is in no way looking for sympathy it's just puts things into perspective regarding the messing around i had to endure with this engine.I informed Fernando of my health situation and at the time wasn't sure I was going to servive but would carry on as best I could building my car.Working the car gave me an incentive to cope with the illness and helped me with something to look forward to.
Fernando has been a great help whilst I've been building my car and has done me some good deals on new parts,this he frequently reminds me of when I get an issue.He has been almost like a friend during the long term build,and has been most helpfull at anytime I've asked his advise.this I very much appreciate but on the flip side I have spent around $50.000 and the engine isn't the only issue that I've had during the build process.
I don't expect any help with this,I know I'll have to go it alone on the rebuild but think about this......he saved maybe $500 by not fitting new Pistons,It's going to cost me around $8.000 to put right as I am no longer able to do the work myself.
Just consider this if you decide to fit a built engine.
For anybody who is interested there is a 100 page build thread of my car on the UK forum.
I discussed my needs with him and decided to go for the 850 hp turbo kit,realising that all my drivetrain components would need updating along the way......very expensive but what the heck?.Just about then Fernando decided to part out his 8 second race car and offered me amongst other things his Engine.I was informed it had done just 1000 miles since being built.So I asked him to put new rings and shells and a head gasket on it,which he agreed to do.
Fast forward to it arriving over here in the UK,first thing I noticed was how tatty and used the engine looked.So I cleaned it up and painted it so it would look nice in my engine bay,as it was purely a street car looking good was important.This was the beginning of what was going to be quite a long project build so I asked him the best way to keep the engine good and stop any internal deterioration.I was told by him to remove the plus and spray wd40 into each cylinder then rotate the engine a couple of revolutions every few weeks.which is what I did for the whole time it was fitted.
When it came to fitting I found 7 stripped bolt holes,3 engine/gearbox,1 engine mount ,and 3 sump pan bolts.I helicoil end all these then carried on.as my car was a DBW and the engine was a none DBW I needed to change the cam and crank trigger wheels.On removing the rocker cover I found 2 cam carriers completely snapped and needing replacement.
Fast forward again to start up.I had a Motec M800 gold ecu fitted and loaded my car yet un run onto a low loader to transport it to my tuner....170 miles away,so I never started the engine upto this point.My tuner builds time attack Evos so is happy working on turbo installations.He got the car running and noticed it was smoking a bit but proceed to do other work on the car untill he was ready to put it on the dyno.My tuner decided to change the oil before putting it on the dyno.....the sump plug was covered in metal filings,further investigation showed sever knock damage to the top af the Pistons and deep scoring of the cylinder bores.
I got intouch with Fernado and sent pictures of the damage,after blaming me and every other option including the UK weather he offered to take it back and credit to him pay all the expenses incurred.So it was sent back and unfortunately the block was badly damaged by the shipping company... Beyond repair.So a new Benson sleeved block was provided and machined to take the Pistons.It was then sent back to me as a brand new built 850 hp engine........But when pressed Fernando the told me that the badly det damaged Pistons had been reused.
I thought at this point that they knew what they were doing and asked for the oil return not to be fitted to the girdle as I had the front cover machined to accept the oil return.They didn't fit the oil return but the 1 inch hole was still machined into the Girdle?????First job was to get that welded up then make the engine look good before fitting.
After fitting the engine it was filled with Mineral Oil ready for the 1000 mile breaking in period,also it had a startup map on the ecu but I still decided to put it on a low loader rather than driving the car to the tuner.On start up the engine was very noisy, which was worrying.My tuner said it sounded like piston slap.
I carefully run the car in doing 3 oil changes during the running in period just to be safe,the sump plug was clear of any metal filings which made me feel better.So Tuesday 16th of June it went on the dyno for the big power tune.We were looking a 2 bar boost,around 700 hp.
Initially it made 80 hp less than the stock motor I had fitted last year at the same boost.But as it was a low compression 2.2 so wasn't uduly worried.Once upto 1 bar boost it blew the dipstick out and started to eject oil out all over the inside of the hood and windshield.plus the piston slap was frighteningly noisy.
My tuner was nervous about putting anymore boost throught the motor because he was afraid the engine would blow up on the dyno......that is the situation at the moment.My tuner thinks the car may or may not be safe to run as is with lower boost.
I informed Fernando via whatsapp of the situation last Wednesday,The very first thing he did by way of a response was to send me around 10 videos of his cars on the drag strip.He then proceed to talk to me like I'm 5 years old and blaming absolutly everything and everybody for the engine issues.
He asked for a leak down and compression check plus a video of the oil ejecting from the engine.I told him I'm not with the car as I had to get a train home....as I mentioned I live 170 miles from my tuner.Then he told me to get the tuner to do the above tests.
I have thrown so much money and time at that engine and its issues I just can't be bothered to spend another penny on it.When the first engine failed I had to pay the tuner to remove that engine,source a replacement stock angina which I then had to pay to have fitted and setup/ tuned.
Once I got the rebuilt built engine back I then had to remove the stock engine,paint and make nice the new engine and fit it myself.I then took it on a low loader back to the tuner for a running in map.I put the car on the road after our British winter and carefully run it in.Which takes us to the point where we are now.
This may or may not be of relevance but it is important in the process.I was diagnosed with Cancer in November 2013,almost exactly the time the first engine failed.I was off work so not earning any wages.I had to have radiotherapy which I had when the the rebuilt engine arrived back from the States.So still recovering from Radiotherapy and not having a lot of money to pay somebody to swap engines I did the swap myself......this is in no way looking for sympathy it's just puts things into perspective regarding the messing around i had to endure with this engine.I informed Fernando of my health situation and at the time wasn't sure I was going to servive but would carry on as best I could building my car.Working the car gave me an incentive to cope with the illness and helped me with something to look forward to.
Fernando has been a great help whilst I've been building my car and has done me some good deals on new parts,this he frequently reminds me of when I get an issue.He has been almost like a friend during the long term build,and has been most helpfull at anytime I've asked his advise.this I very much appreciate but on the flip side I have spent around $50.000 and the engine isn't the only issue that I've had during the build process.
I don't expect any help with this,I know I'll have to go it alone on the rebuild but think about this......he saved maybe $500 by not fitting new Pistons,It's going to cost me around $8.000 to put right as I am no longer able to do the work myself.
Just consider this if you decide to fit a built engine.
For anybody who is interested there is a 100 page build thread of my car on the UK forum.
06-21-2015, 04:13 AM
#2
Wow this sounds like a nightmare for you. I would have sent the first motor back and have a motor done properly in the UK. Obviously it appears that Kings Performance in FL do not know what they are doing and more importantly, not to be trusted! I am surprised to hear this because their reputation appeared to be good but apparently not!
06-21-2015, 06:02 AM
#3
Jesus christ man... No matter how much of a "friend" Fernando may pretend to be to you, he clearly does not have your best interest even remotely in his mind.
It looks like we've pretty much run out of reliable builders for Honda engines. I don't know of any company left now that doesn't have a horror story out like this.
Good luck with your treatment, and this entire situation.
It looks like we've pretty much run out of reliable builders for Honda engines. I don't know of any company left now that doesn't have a horror story out like this.
Good luck with your treatment, and this entire situation.
06-21-2015, 07:26 AM
#4
Jesus christ man... No matter how much of a "friend" Fernando may pretend to be to you, he clearly does not have your best interest even remotely in his mind.
It looks like we've pretty much run out of reliable builders for Honda engines. I don't know of any company left now that doesn't have a horror story out like this.
Good luck with your treatment, and this entire situation.
It looks like we've pretty much run out of reliable builders for Honda engines. I don't know of any company left now that doesn't have a horror story out like this.
Good luck with your treatment, and this entire situation.
Thank you for sharing your experience. This reinforces my disposition for doing my own work and just paying for any special tools (expensive they may be) to get the job done.
06-21-2015, 07:31 AM
#5
Wow! This is horrible! Very sorry to hear this. ...and I thought Kings Performance was a very reputable place.
Please don't confuse them with King Motorsports Unlimited in Wi. They are a first class business! http://www.kingmotorsports.com/
Please don't confuse them with King Motorsports Unlimited in Wi. They are a first class business! http://www.kingmotorsports.com/
06-21-2015, 07:52 AM
#7
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Sorry to hear of your problems. I was planning on buying there turbo manifold but now I'm not so sure.
I had my motor built by King Motorsports in WI. It's exactly what was discussed and built. They do top notch work and don't jerk you around.
I had my motor built by King Motorsports in WI. It's exactly what was discussed and built. They do top notch work and don't jerk you around.
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06-21-2015, 08:09 AM
#8
Yikes that sounds horrendous. You aren't the first UK guy to buy an engine from the states and have issues. I would have been very wary about buying a race engine that has been used. I can't imagine blowing that kind of money and still not be driving around
06-21-2015, 10:10 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
I think if Fernando reply's it will consist of videos of cars going down the dragstrip,insulting me and my intelligence and accusation that my tuner is crap.......nothing to even attempt to resolve the issues.Hence the reason I've resigned myself to paying to have the engine rebuilt properly over here.
For the sake of maybe $500 he has potentially screwed up the chance of Selling other built engines.
I wouldn't have contemplated posting this up if he had responded in a reasonable manner without insulting and patronising me.
I also have a list of other problems I've had with him but ive kept to myself out of respect for the help and advise he has given me in the past.
For the sake of maybe $500 he has potentially screwed up the chance of Selling other built engines.
I wouldn't have contemplated posting this up if he had responded in a reasonable manner without insulting and patronising me.
I also have a list of other problems I've had with him but ive kept to myself out of respect for the help and advise he has given me in the past.