What would you do next?
12-13-2015, 08:24 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
What would you do next?
Current suspension mods:
Meister R coilovers (10kg/mm front, 8kg/mm rear)
Hardrace Anti Bump-steer kits (front and rear)
Powerflex polybushes
Eagle F1 tyres, OEM 17"
Current geometry:
I don’t know how it looks to you, but I did ask for this geo to be a bit more ‘oversteery’ - there was apparently a lot of castor on the previous set up, which could make it understeer at slow speeds.
I find this geo to be generally well balanced although it feels less stable at the higher speeds, which I think is due to the increased rear toe? Can I make improvements here?
The car drives very well, however I’m keen to get the best out of the car so would like input on what you might do next to improve the handling if it was your car.
I'm considering ARBs, but have read mixed messages on these. Some saying they ruin how the suspension loads up. I have also read conflicting opinions on whether to do just the front/rear, and whether to do strut braces or lower bars. - Any wisdom here appreciated.
My issue is I don't know where the bottleneck is with the car. It's hard to tell what needs improving but at the same time I’m sure the chassis has more to give ;-)
Would switching to ‘higher quality’ coilovers, such as Ohlins or KWs make much difference? I’m not sure how vast the differences are.
Any thoughts on suspension mods or geo appreciated :-)
Meister R coilovers (10kg/mm front, 8kg/mm rear)
Hardrace Anti Bump-steer kits (front and rear)
Powerflex polybushes
Eagle F1 tyres, OEM 17"
Current geometry:
I don’t know how it looks to you, but I did ask for this geo to be a bit more ‘oversteery’ - there was apparently a lot of castor on the previous set up, which could make it understeer at slow speeds.
I find this geo to be generally well balanced although it feels less stable at the higher speeds, which I think is due to the increased rear toe? Can I make improvements here?
The car drives very well, however I’m keen to get the best out of the car so would like input on what you might do next to improve the handling if it was your car.
I'm considering ARBs, but have read mixed messages on these. Some saying they ruin how the suspension loads up. I have also read conflicting opinions on whether to do just the front/rear, and whether to do strut braces or lower bars. - Any wisdom here appreciated.
My issue is I don't know where the bottleneck is with the car. It's hard to tell what needs improving but at the same time I’m sure the chassis has more to give ;-)
Would switching to ‘higher quality’ coilovers, such as Ohlins or KWs make much difference? I’m not sure how vast the differences are.
Any thoughts on suspension mods or geo appreciated :-)
12-13-2015, 09:05 AM
#2
Member
Castor won't affect oversteer.
It's difficult to say what to suggest without knowing what you use the car for and what you want to achieve - barely any info to go on.
If it's outright grip, get some semi slicks and 9" all round.
If it's for racing the totally different setup, etc.
If you want to sort the instability I would look at toe. I personally don't like a lot at the rear at all.
It's difficult to say what to suggest without knowing what you use the car for and what you want to achieve - barely any info to go on.
If it's outright grip, get some semi slicks and 9" all round.
If it's for racing the totally different setup, etc.
If you want to sort the instability I would look at toe. I personally don't like a lot at the rear at all.
12-13-2015, 09:26 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Fair enough. I guess I'm looking for maximum grip and best handling when on the limit. To me that means a bias towards oversteer and a progressive breakaway. Potentially intangible things such as steering feel and how the car loads up the suspension and tyres are important to me but I don't really know how to describe what I'm after. Just 'better'.. I would like to attend at least a couple of track days next year but will be mostly the fabled 'fast road' use in various conditions.
Noted about the toe and non-staggered wheels, I'd been thinking about that a bit too.
Noted about the toe and non-staggered wheels, I'd been thinking about that a bit too.
12-13-2015, 09:42 AM
#4
Member
You mention the car drives very well, presume it therefore already has good grip and progressive breakaway? Just not stable at speed?
Not being difficult but It's not clear what problem needs fixing!
Regarding geo, toe and castor are personal things IMO, camber is not and should always be optimised for loaded tyre contact if you are after the best grip.
Once you have the geo sorted, adjusting the oversteer / under steer can be done with either spring rates / damper settings / arb or all 3.
Decreasing the rear damping rate (stiffening) is the easiest, but you can then compromise grip and how the car tackles bumps on a 1 way damper.
Not being difficult but It's not clear what problem needs fixing!
Regarding geo, toe and castor are personal things IMO, camber is not and should always be optimised for loaded tyre contact if you are after the best grip.
Once you have the geo sorted, adjusting the oversteer / under steer can be done with either spring rates / damper settings / arb or all 3.
Decreasing the rear damping rate (stiffening) is the easiest, but you can then compromise grip and how the car tackles bumps on a 1 way damper.
12-13-2015, 10:15 AM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
I think the unstable at high speed corners is the biggest issue, yeah. Sounds like getting rid of most of the rear toe will fix that.
Other than that, I guess the reason I am wondering is while it goes drive great, can it be better? theres lots more aftermarket suspension stuff one can buy, but as above its hard to know what's currently the weak link because it's already pretty darn good.
Other than that, I guess the reason I am wondering is while it goes drive great, can it be better? theres lots more aftermarket suspension stuff one can buy, but as above its hard to know what's currently the weak link because it's already pretty darn good.
12-13-2015, 10:46 AM
#7
Member
Given what you've said, I'd tweak the rear toe and leave it alone or you can end up slapping on parts to sort an issue that isn't there, as it seems you are happy with it.
Everything can be better - you could go for 3 way Ohlins, corner weighting, semi slicks, poly bushes everywhere, adjustable arbs, posh suspension arms and so on... But for road use you aren't looking for lap times. Some decent coilovers, good geo and good tyres is where the best money goes.
Everything can be better - you could go for 3 way Ohlins, corner weighting, semi slicks, poly bushes everywhere, adjustable arbs, posh suspension arms and so on... But for road use you aren't looking for lap times. Some decent coilovers, good geo and good tyres is where the best money goes.
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12-13-2015, 10:49 AM
#8
Yeah this^
I find around 6° castor gives the best turn-in/stability compromise, which sort of helps the oversteer be more progressive, if that makes sense.
Low-zero toe is good.
I find around 6° castor gives the best turn-in/stability compromise, which sort of helps the oversteer be more progressive, if that makes sense.
Low-zero toe is good.
12-13-2015, 11:10 AM
#9
I've tried all the modifications you propose and then some.
I personally think the biggest bottleneck on your car is the tyres.
My current S has a lot of suspension mods; I've used both F1 Assymetric 2's and AD08R's, and the F1's are fit only for the bin. Pity as the F1 Assymetric 1's were much better and seemed nowhere near as soggy in the sidewalls. AD08R's are just as good in the rain if you stay focussed but transform the car overall.
I personally think the biggest bottleneck on your car is the tyres.
My current S has a lot of suspension mods; I've used both F1 Assymetric 2's and AD08R's, and the F1's are fit only for the bin. Pity as the F1 Assymetric 1's were much better and seemed nowhere near as soggy in the sidewalls. AD08R's are just as good in the rain if you stay focussed but transform the car overall.
12-13-2015, 11:53 AM
#10
Q: Was the result figs above with driver weight in car or loaded to equivalent ?
would the RHR increase above 1.6mm if not the case.
would the RHR increase above 1.6mm if not the case.
