Bilstein PSS9 suspension observations
04-17-2008, 11:39 AM
#43
Originally Posted by s2ka,Apr 17 2008, 03:08 PM
OEM Spring rates by year (front/rear)
MY00-01 = 218/291
MY02-03 = 240/230
MY04-07 = 256/207
MY08-UP = 274/225
MY08 CR = 375/264
Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers = 345/285
MY00-01 = 218/291
MY02-03 = 240/230
MY04-07 = 256/207
MY08-UP = 274/225
MY08 CR = 375/264
Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers = 345/285
I don't understand why people all ovef these forums say that the spring rates are the same as OEM.
Misled information... not good.
Thank You for clearing that up.
Andre
04-17-2008, 02:07 PM
#44
They feel softer because the Bilstein shocks have smoother initial movement, better dampening and the helper springs smooth out the small bumps. So the ride is better than stock but the rates are still higher than everything except the CR... best of both worlds for the street.
04-18-2008, 05:07 AM
#45
Originally Posted by s2ka,Apr 17 2008, 06:07 PM
They feel softer because the Bilstein shocks have smoother initial movement, better dampening and the helper springs smooth out the small bumps. So the ride is better than stock but the rates are still higher than everything except the CR... best of both worlds for the street.
I'm considering the Bilstein's right now... hmmmmm... hehe.
Andre
07-04-2008, 09:46 PM
#46
Registered User
Glad I found this thread, been really considering these coilovers...
I just don't know.... I've read so much about "if your going to change the suspension on this car, you better do it right or lose the awesome handling ability this car came with"
So I've been really hesistant to do so.
My MY06 is a daily driver for now, and I do about 2-3 HPDE's per year. I want something that is going to help me on the track but isn't going to make me hate daily driving my car either.
I just don't know.... I've read so much about "if your going to change the suspension on this car, you better do it right or lose the awesome handling ability this car came with"
So I've been really hesistant to do so.
My MY06 is a daily driver for now, and I do about 2-3 HPDE's per year. I want something that is going to help me on the track but isn't going to make me hate daily driving my car either.
07-05-2008, 10:13 AM
#48
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SCC has these rates stated in their June 08 issue with the suspension comparo:
AP1 front 249 lb/in (4.45 kg/mm) Rear : 306 lb/in(5.42 kg/mm)
AP2 front 266 lb/in (4.75 kg/mm) Rear: 273 lb/in (4.88 kg/mm)
CR front 392 lb/in (7 kg/mm) Rear 342 lb/in (6.22 kg/mm)
KW coil overs ($3095) : 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm) Rear: 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm)
Tein Monoflex CO ($1710)Front 671 lb/in(12kg/mm) Rear: 559 lb/in (10 kg/mm)
The KW and Tein seemed to be the best of the usual street lot without going overboard with stiffness and price, though KW are expensive. I think the Teins look to be the best of the group price/performance.
Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers = 345/285, which is softer compared to the other two CO's above and the CR. As such, they probably are not the best thing for serious tracking. But as others are saying, they are comfortable, more so than stock.
So you should see an improvement over stock AP1/AP2 in terms of handling, but nothing against the CR. Also, the other advantage is that you can adjust the ride height and so perform proper corner weighting, bettering stock setups if done properly.
What I can never figure out is how the variable dampers affect the handling. It is my understanding that the springs do all the work in terms of handling the weight of the car, weight transfer etc., and the dampers are just to dampen the action of the springs. But it seems that increasing the damping action of the dampers is also effectively giving the same benefits as increasing the spring rates. Is this true? Can some of the more experiences suspension guys shed a little light here?
AP1 front 249 lb/in (4.45 kg/mm) Rear : 306 lb/in(5.42 kg/mm)
AP2 front 266 lb/in (4.75 kg/mm) Rear: 273 lb/in (4.88 kg/mm)
CR front 392 lb/in (7 kg/mm) Rear 342 lb/in (6.22 kg/mm)
KW coil overs ($3095) : 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm) Rear: 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm)
Tein Monoflex CO ($1710)Front 671 lb/in(12kg/mm) Rear: 559 lb/in (10 kg/mm)
The KW and Tein seemed to be the best of the usual street lot without going overboard with stiffness and price, though KW are expensive. I think the Teins look to be the best of the group price/performance.
Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers = 345/285, which is softer compared to the other two CO's above and the CR. As such, they probably are not the best thing for serious tracking. But as others are saying, they are comfortable, more so than stock.
So you should see an improvement over stock AP1/AP2 in terms of handling, but nothing against the CR. Also, the other advantage is that you can adjust the ride height and so perform proper corner weighting, bettering stock setups if done properly.
What I can never figure out is how the variable dampers affect the handling. It is my understanding that the springs do all the work in terms of handling the weight of the car, weight transfer etc., and the dampers are just to dampen the action of the springs. But it seems that increasing the damping action of the dampers is also effectively giving the same benefits as increasing the spring rates. Is this true? Can some of the more experiences suspension guys shed a little light here?
07-09-2008, 08:20 PM
#49
Registered User
Originally Posted by zbrewha863,Jul 5 2008, 12:23 AM
Check out the KW3s then
07-09-2008, 09:15 PM
#50
Registered User
Originally Posted by trinis2001,Jul 5 2008, 10:13 AM
SCC has these rates stated in their June 08 issue with the suspension comparo:
AP1 front 249 lb/in (4.45 kg/mm) Rear : 306 lb/in(5.42 kg/mm)
AP2 front 266 lb/in (4.75 kg/mm) Rear: 273 lb/in (4.88 kg/mm)
CR front 392 lb/in (7 kg/mm) Rear 342 lb/in (6.22 kg/mm)
KW coil overs ($3095) : 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm) Rear: 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm)
Tein Monoflex CO ($1710)Front 671 lb/in(12kg/mm) Rear: 559 lb/in (10 kg/mm)
The KW and Tein seemed to be the best of the usual street lot without going overboard with stiffness and price, though KW are expensive. I think the Teins look to be the best of the group price/performance.
Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers = 345/285, which is softer compared to the other two CO's above and the CR. As such, they probably are not the best thing for serious tracking. But as others are saying, they are comfortable, more so than stock.
So you should see an improvement over stock AP1/AP2 in terms of handling, but nothing against the CR. Also, the other advantage is that you can adjust the ride height and so perform proper corner weighting, bettering stock setups if done properly.
What I can never figure out is how the variable dampers affect the handling. It is my understanding that the springs do all the work in terms of handling the weight of the car, weight transfer etc., and the dampers are just to dampen the action of the springs. But it seems that increasing the damping action of the dampers is also effectively giving the same benefits as increasing the spring rates. Is this true? Can some of the more experiences suspension guys shed a little light here?
AP1 front 249 lb/in (4.45 kg/mm) Rear : 306 lb/in(5.42 kg/mm)
AP2 front 266 lb/in (4.75 kg/mm) Rear: 273 lb/in (4.88 kg/mm)
CR front 392 lb/in (7 kg/mm) Rear 342 lb/in (6.22 kg/mm)
KW coil overs ($3095) : 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm) Rear: 540 lb/in (9.6kg/mm)
Tein Monoflex CO ($1710)Front 671 lb/in(12kg/mm) Rear: 559 lb/in (10 kg/mm)
The KW and Tein seemed to be the best of the usual street lot without going overboard with stiffness and price, though KW are expensive. I think the Teins look to be the best of the group price/performance.
Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers = 345/285, which is softer compared to the other two CO's above and the CR. As such, they probably are not the best thing for serious tracking. But as others are saying, they are comfortable, more so than stock.
So you should see an improvement over stock AP1/AP2 in terms of handling, but nothing against the CR. Also, the other advantage is that you can adjust the ride height and so perform proper corner weighting, bettering stock setups if done properly.
What I can never figure out is how the variable dampers affect the handling. It is my understanding that the springs do all the work in terms of handling the weight of the car, weight transfer etc., and the dampers are just to dampen the action of the springs. But it seems that increasing the damping action of the dampers is also effectively giving the same benefits as increasing the spring rates. Is this true? Can some of the more experiences suspension guys shed a little light here?
First, it drastically depends on what type of coilovers you are talking about from Tein, and less so for KW. I'll assume you're talking about Tein Flexs and KWv2s, since they're at the same price point as the PSS9s. The KWs have great damping, a decent range of adjustability (enough if you're only tracking the car a few times a year), and very good build quality.
With Teins, a totally different story. The entry level Tein Flex coilovers have the typical entry-level Japanese coilover setup -- high spring rates w/ low damping to compensate for street useage. The problem is that the lower damping can't handle the high spring rates, so (1) the dampers don't last that long compared to other coilovers, especially if you drop the car too low (I've seen some Tein Flexs go out after 2-3k miles on really slammed cars) AND (2) practically on the track, low damping is a b**ch.
Most tracks are not that smooth, and low damping rates make the car bouncy/jumpy, which makes it hard to control. That means lower lap times, and your alignment and the dampers don't last as long since they're being worn down from all the bouncing.
Basically, it's just not worth it to go w/ a cheap set of coilovers for those reasons. Tein RS, RA, & N1 coilovers are a totally different story though. They're beautiful, but you're going to pay substantially more for the quality.