View Poll Results: For you qualified AP1s, Did you replace your Oil Banjo Bolts?
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll
AP1 Oil Banjo Bolts aka Oil Sprayers
07-22-2011, 03:50 PM
#11
Registered User
S2K MY' 01
Researched the Banjo Bolts and have NOT replaced them yet. Did replaced the Intake valve retainers, new valve seals and installed NGK Iridium plugs.
Just turned 86,000 miles
Custom wire tuck, battery in trunk, pillar gauges, all Synthetic oils, Runs strong.
Might do the Oil Banjo bolts when I drop the drive train and replace the original clutch (has clutch buzz bad)
Researched the Banjo Bolts and have NOT replaced them yet. Did replaced the Intake valve retainers, new valve seals and installed NGK Iridium plugs.
Just turned 86,000 miles
Custom wire tuck, battery in trunk, pillar gauges, all Synthetic oils, Runs strong.
Might do the Oil Banjo bolts when I drop the drive train and replace the original clutch (has clutch buzz bad)
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Eclcl (05-23-2023)
07-22-2011, 03:59 PM
#12
Originally Posted by kundanp333' timestamp='1311377789' post='20806739
I would like to ask if the modification of the sprayers does in fact cure the starvation (while doing 100+mph)? or does it just "decrease the chances"?
It should be noted that tracking your car or auto-xing your car isn't a problem with the old bolts, as you vary your rpms during track driving and auto-x, it seems the problem arises when you drive at high constant rpms for long periods of time. If you vary the engine speed a bit even though driving at high speeds the problem doesn't seem to arise.
It is interesting to note that oil starvation issues continued on cars that did the oil jet bolt change, and even on some ap2's so it was not a total fix for oil starvation issues and not all oil starvation problems stemmed from the oil jet bolt issue.
07-23-2011, 12:11 PM
#13
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With oil starvation they mean in this case starving the #4 cylinder wall & piston from oil.
There are many other oil starvation possibilities left.
My original MY'00 engine had the bolts changed by the dealer - European recall.
Sure, we in Europe all drive like idiots on our Autobahn.
Its possible though, with a higher chance of synthetic oils used in the European engines and those oils being the 5W-40 viscosity mentioned in the manual to be use din colder climats, one could potentionally reduce the oil flow through the engine at higher rpm.
In the US, where - especially in 2000-2003 - the 10W-30 dino oil still ruled so the change was alot less.
Not to forget that dino stuff sheared like no other effectively making it a 20 weight.
Exit oil flow problems.
There are many other oil starvation possibilities left.
My original MY'00 engine had the bolts changed by the dealer - European recall.
Sure, we in Europe all drive like idiots on our Autobahn.
Its possible though, with a higher chance of synthetic oils used in the European engines and those oils being the 5W-40 viscosity mentioned in the manual to be use din colder climats, one could potentionally reduce the oil flow through the engine at higher rpm.
In the US, where - especially in 2000-2003 - the 10W-30 dino oil still ruled so the change was alot less.
Not to forget that dino stuff sheared like no other effectively making it a 20 weight.
Exit oil flow problems.
07-23-2011, 01:45 PM
#14
I also think today's improved 30 weight oils may have helped with the issue as well.
07-23-2011, 03:22 PM
#15
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I thought the upgrade was overrated... But I was not thoroughly convinced, thus the poll/post.
I have also heard, from word of mouth, that the design of the oil pan has an influence on the amount of oil delivered to the engine. This lack of oil delivery can or may occur while taking sharp turns all because the oil may not be available at the bottom of the pan, and instead is lying around on the sides.
TRUE?!
I have also heard, from word of mouth, that the design of the oil pan has an influence on the amount of oil delivered to the engine. This lack of oil delivery can or may occur while taking sharp turns all because the oil may not be available at the bottom of the pan, and instead is lying around on the sides.
TRUE?!
07-23-2011, 04:35 PM
#16
I thought the upgrade was overrated... But I was not thoroughly convinced, thus the poll/post.
I have also heard, from word of mouth, that the design of the oil pan has an influence on the amount of oil delivered to the engine. This lack of oil delivery can or may occur while taking sharp turns all because the oil may not be available at the bottom of the pan, and instead is lying around on the sides.
TRUE?!
I have also heard, from word of mouth, that the design of the oil pan has an influence on the amount of oil delivered to the engine. This lack of oil delivery can or may occur while taking sharp turns all because the oil may not be available at the bottom of the pan, and instead is lying around on the sides.
TRUE?!
07-24-2011, 06:27 AM
#17
When Honda decided it was serious enough to spend the money to do all of Europe I decided it must be a real risk. I was early enough that I had to get the bolts through a contact in Europe but was tracking the car regularly and felt it was a prudent move. The change is relatively cheap and easy to do so I am surprised how few did it.
07-24-2011, 11:58 AM
#18
Registered User
Originally Posted by kundanp333' timestamp='1311463339' post='20808862
I thought the upgrade was overrated... But I was not thoroughly convinced, thus the poll/post.
I have also heard, from word of mouth, that the design of the oil pan has an influence on the amount of oil delivered to the engine. This lack of oil delivery can or may occur while taking sharp turns all because the oil may not be available at the bottom of the pan, and instead is lying around on the sides.
TRUE?!
I have also heard, from word of mouth, that the design of the oil pan has an influence on the amount of oil delivered to the engine. This lack of oil delivery can or may occur while taking sharp turns all because the oil may not be available at the bottom of the pan, and instead is lying around on the sides.
TRUE?!
i had the updated banjo bolts installed in the engine currently in the car, they were installed at 80k, now at 110k, been turbo for ~20k miles, all is well in the world
07-25-2011, 05:05 AM
#20
Moderator
I have SEEN three seperate cars....not read about on s2ki, this is my own experience...cars with plenty of miles, 20-40k or so, that scored the #4 cylinder within two weeks of going FI (forced induction, whether turbo or supercharged). All these cars were comfirmed to have the old two-hole style oil jet bolts.
If you are FI and you have the old style bolts, you run a serious risk of scoring the cylinder. If you have not scored your cylinders yet, you do not encounter the piston temps of the cars that are having issues due to driving style.
I have found the new style bolts in one engine that was a few hundred or so lower than the suspected engine number of 1025386...I'm pretty sure it was around 1025230. 2000-2001 cars all have the old style bolts. 2003-2009 all have the new style bolts. 2002 was the year of the changover, starting approximately with the ENGINE numbers I have listed.
Each cylinder has one oil jet, mounted to the block at the bottom of the cylinder, that sprays oil under the piston. Each piston has ten little holes in it, that lead from underneath the piston to the lowest ring on the piston....the OIL RING. It is obvious that the new oil jet bolt allows a larger volume of oil to reach the lower oil ring. The oil ring is a 3 piece set. upper and lower scraper rings, and a middle ring that looks like an accordian and holds oil. The new jet bolts MIGHT also affect the spray pattern of the oil as it exits the jet. as the piston moves downward, it mushrooms out the tower of spraying oil, forcing the oil out the ten holes. I BELIEVE it also sevres to cool the piston.
Oil jet bolt replacement requires oil pan removal, windage tray removal, and decent mechanical abilty.
THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW CASES of people attempting to do the job, and cross threading or stripping the holes in the engine block. The entire engine blocks were garbage at this point and had to be replaced.
A high quality 3/8" drive torque wrench is an absolute must. You cannot set your 1/2" drive torque wrench to the proper torque and try to torque an oil jet bolt. 1/2" drive torque wrenches are not designed to operate in the lowest setting of the wrench. You will, without question, destroy the engine block.
The new oil jet bolts have four oil holes, AND a taller head. they can be identified without removing the jet or bolt itself from the engine. I'm wondering if a borescope can be used after oil draining to identify the new bolts due to the head size.
I can add pics later of the bolts.
If you are FI and you have the old style bolts, you run a serious risk of scoring the cylinder. If you have not scored your cylinders yet, you do not encounter the piston temps of the cars that are having issues due to driving style.
I have found the new style bolts in one engine that was a few hundred or so lower than the suspected engine number of 1025386...I'm pretty sure it was around 1025230. 2000-2001 cars all have the old style bolts. 2003-2009 all have the new style bolts. 2002 was the year of the changover, starting approximately with the ENGINE numbers I have listed.
Each cylinder has one oil jet, mounted to the block at the bottom of the cylinder, that sprays oil under the piston. Each piston has ten little holes in it, that lead from underneath the piston to the lowest ring on the piston....the OIL RING. It is obvious that the new oil jet bolt allows a larger volume of oil to reach the lower oil ring. The oil ring is a 3 piece set. upper and lower scraper rings, and a middle ring that looks like an accordian and holds oil. The new jet bolts MIGHT also affect the spray pattern of the oil as it exits the jet. as the piston moves downward, it mushrooms out the tower of spraying oil, forcing the oil out the ten holes. I BELIEVE it also sevres to cool the piston.
Oil jet bolt replacement requires oil pan removal, windage tray removal, and decent mechanical abilty.
THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW CASES of people attempting to do the job, and cross threading or stripping the holes in the engine block. The entire engine blocks were garbage at this point and had to be replaced.
A high quality 3/8" drive torque wrench is an absolute must. You cannot set your 1/2" drive torque wrench to the proper torque and try to torque an oil jet bolt. 1/2" drive torque wrenches are not designed to operate in the lowest setting of the wrench. You will, without question, destroy the engine block.
The new oil jet bolts have four oil holes, AND a taller head. they can be identified without removing the jet or bolt itself from the engine. I'm wondering if a borescope can be used after oil draining to identify the new bolts due to the head size.
I can add pics later of the bolts.
