Thanks for the great review! It would be nice if Toyota dropped a V8 in it like in Oridos car. I'm sure you've seent his already but maybe some haven't.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUPCwolLrsY[/media]

 

Mustang destroyer.

 

Because the BRZ has a few key advantages when it comes to outright performance. You have to remember, this car is 15 years newer in design than the s2k.

- Aero. The BRZ is far more aerodynamic, and doesn't create the massive rear lift that the s2k does. There's a reason s2k's benefit so greatly from massive rear wings.
- Weight. The S2k is a featherweight by modern standards. The BRZ is even lighter, and carries all of the "current" safety equipment that the s2k lacks.
- Chassis. I can feel exactly what the rear wheels are doing and where they're going, whereas in the s2k, you get a relative feel for if the rear is planted or not.


Additionally, a turbo BRZ/FRS will be much more manageable than a turbo s2k on track. The FRS/BRZ is already showing to have some gains from bolt-ons and tunes, whereas the F2xC generally gains nothing.
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From some of the other posts that i've seen, the BRz can hit 200 whp with bolt ons + tune. It will have a broader power band the the s2000 and it's lighter. Combined with better aerodynamics, I expect this chassis to out-perform the s2000 in a full out performnace setup (suspenion, intake, exhaust, brakes, header, rims/tires, tune) if all things are equal.

 

Those are two different things. Reaching a "full out performance setup" would required different changes to either car.

If all changes are equal, I imagine either car could have the advantage, depending on what those changes are.

 

Because the BRZ has a few key advantages when it comes to outright performance. You have to remember, this car is 15 years newer in design than the s2k.

- Aero. The BRZ is far more aerodynamic, and doesn't create the massive rear lift that the s2k does. There's a reason s2k's benefit so greatly from massive rear wings.
- Weight. The S2k is a featherweight by modern standards. The BRZ is even lighter, and carries all of the "current" safety equipment that the s2k lacks.
- Chassis. I can feel exactly what the rear wheels are doing and where they're going, whereas in the s2k, you get a relative feel for if the rear is planted or not.


Additionally, a turbo BRZ/FRS will be much more manageable than a turbo s2k on track. The FRS/BRZ is already showing to have some gains from bolt-ons and tunes, whereas the F2xC generally gains nothing.
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Good to hear your thoughts. Although i'm not buying the weight argument, the BRZ limited (listed at 2,776 lbs on their website) and s2k CR have less than a 50lb weight difference

 

The basic modifications are the same. We're not talking unlimited class unlimited budget time attack here. Just off-the-shelf bolt-on performance parts.


Because the BRZ has a few key advantages when it comes to outright performance. You have to remember, this car is 15 years newer in design than the s2k.

- Aero. The BRZ is far more aerodynamic, and doesn't create the massive rear lift that the s2k does. There's a reason s2k's benefit so greatly from massive rear wings.
- Weight. The S2k is a featherweight by modern standards. The BRZ is even lighter, and carries all of the "current" safety equipment that the s2k lacks.
- Chassis. I can feel exactly what the rear wheels are doing and where they're going, whereas in the s2k, you get a relative feel for if the rear is planted or not.


Additionally, a turbo BRZ/FRS will be much more manageable than a turbo s2k on track. The FRS/BRZ is already showing to have some gains from bolt-ons and tunes, whereas the F2xC generally gains nothing.
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Good to hear your thoughts. Although i'm not buying the weight argument, the BRZ limited (listed at 2,776 lbs on their website) and s2k CR have less than a 50lb weight difference
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S2k Challenge drivers will notice a 50lb weight difference. We notice 30 lbs in our lap times. Remember, reducing weight improves performance exponentially as you remove more.

 

But the advantages/gains provided by those parts aren't the same. Basic bolt-on parts will obviously show bigger gains in the BRZ, because it is not as highly tuned as the S2000 from the factory. At the same time, a large rear wing would show different changes in the handling of either car; I imagine the s2000 would show more improvement, but I can't say which would perform better overall. Because of the lighter weight and suspension balance, given a specific tire width (225 - since that's the stock width of an AP1 rear tire), I would expect the BRZ to perform better. With a larger tire, say, 255, the story might be different. I'm sure either car would shine at different levels of modification.

Given intake(up to, not including manifold)/exhaust/wheels/tires, you believe the BRZ is going to come up 50-70 horsepower and out-corner the s2000? That's impressive!

Either way, my response was just to point out that full, big-budget time attack builds, and cars set up using the same/similar off-the-shelf parts are two different things.

 

Nice review, I'm tempted to trade the ms3 for one (in the end FWD is just too annoying and not fun enough).

 

I'll stick with the 2k. 14 year difference, splitting hairs on which is better.
Plus my car is paid for and I like the RED honda badge. Even though I don't have one.

 

But the advantages/gains provided by those parts aren't the same. Basic bolt-on parts will obviously show bigger gains in the BRZ, because it is not as highly tuned as the S2000 from the factory. At the same time, a large rear wing would show different changes in the handling of either car; I imagine the s2000 would show more improvement, but I can't say which would perform better overall. Because of the lighter weight and suspension balance, given a specific tire width (225 - since that's the stock width of an AP1 rear tire), I would expect the BRZ to perform better. With a larger tire, say, 255, the story might be different. I'm sure either car would shine at different levels of modification.

Given intake(up to, not including manifold)/exhaust/wheels/tires, you believe the BRZ is going to come up 50-70 horsepower and out-corner the s2000? That's impressive!

Either way, my response was just to point out that full, big-budget time attack builds, and cars set up using the same/similar off-the-shelf parts are two different things.
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Don't take this the wrong way, but you're bench racing. I own and track both cars. The BRZ is faster than the s2k on equal tires (whether its 225 or 255) and suspension, with zero other mods. The BRZ is faster than the s2k CR on equal tires, suspension, and alignment with zero other mods. These are already both conclusively proven facts, not speculation.

Keep in mind, I'm not the only S2k and BRZ/FRS owner that has already modified and tracked both cars.