Well see, that's the thing. I don't need a minivan. I don't need a giant SUV either. It's rare that we need to put more than 2 people in it. I just need something that's practical enough to haul stuff around, make the occasionally Home Depot run, or strap a kayak to the roof. Basically something that can complement the sports car occupying the other spot in the garage. The X3M fits that bill nicely, being essentially an oversized/taller M3.

 

This is where I am at. A bike rack would be number one need/want. Then the ability to pick up some stuff from Home Depot. The the ability to take enough luggage for two adults to take a road trip and a dog.

Lots of cars fit the bill, but the Macan does most of it better. I still like driving cars more. Pulled the Cayman out of winter storage today. Oh how I missed wringing out a stick shift.

 

I’ve done all that with a hatchback.


It sounds like a truck would be more beneficial in that role. You’d have a bed for your “occasional” Home Depot run. And there are a heap of options, including all sorts of powertrains. Look we don’t have to agree, not everyone has to agree on things. I can’t stand CUV’s, and think they are absolutely pointless. Give me a van or give me a truck. You see a crossover and all I see is a hatchback with a chintzy lift kit. Worse driving dynamics than an equivalent “car”. Lift kit, but not really built for off roading. SMH

 

How about a Station Wagon? Isn't 5 Series M Wagon coming to the States? Car and Driver called the TSX Sportswagon a 4 door S2000 (5spd auto only).

 

Different strokes for different folks, but the criteria you describe above could easily be done by...an actual M3.

 

Let me preface this by saying I DD a hatchback, but CUVs are great for what they are. The problem is that most people have no idea why they like them. This notion of I'll never be caught dead in a minivan but ok driving a jelly bean CUV is fine is mind numbing to me. On a side note, I'm starting to come to the same conclusion about living in a trailer park vs apartment/condo/tiny home/container home/ADU, it's the same friggin thing. I think that's where my problem with CUVs lie, in that it represents Sheeple group think, it's amazing what's deemed acceptable and not, stupid. Like a couple decades ago your clothes had to be tailored fitted otherwise you're a slob not worthy of mating, but now clothes are 90s loose again and is considered fashionable.

But, things sometimes get popular for good reason. This past weekend, I went to temple with the family and I knew it was going to be a crap show because the parking lot is a huge open unpaved field, with the rains we've had I knew it was going to be a mud pit. Sure enough it was, the area closest to the temple is the most level and closest thing to a paved lot, but it also means it was pretty much straight dirt, so add water and you got a mud pit. Further out, it flatted tall grass and the terrain is peppered with huge gopher holes, some of them can swallow a 38" wheel (they try to cone those off), not to mention it was never leveled. Anyway, I took the Crosstrek on purpose because there were 3 adults and me (so wanted more space), driving over an hour on the highway (so wanted MPGs), and had to deal with that parking lot, hence I wanted the 8" of ground clearance and AWD.

It was kinda hilarious seeing all the stuck cars, and all the cars shoveling mud with their front bumpers, bottoming out and scraping, I just shook my head. I was able to park further out, did some light off road work, zero labor. I would've tore up my GRC if I took it.

The thing is, situations like this around here is pretty common. Trail heads, fishing areas, overflow parking for events, heck just driving around the cities where they repaved the roads countless times to the point they're way higher in the center than the sidewalk creating sharp troughs at the driveways. Having that ground clearance is so nice. All things equal, I would love driving dynamics, but things arent, because driving dynamics comes at the expense of ground clearance, operating costs, money, etc etc.

A lifted Ford Transit Connect/Mazda5 type of van I think would be absolutely awesome, because sliding doors are probably one of the best vehicle features of all time. But then again, unless you have kids in car seats, having a sliding door isn't necessary and just becomes an expensive feature that can be a pain when they malfunction.

Here's another thought too, I wonder why engineers couldn't figure out a way to mechanically assist the sliding door, vs making them powered. I gotta think that using hydraulic struts/springs or something they could make opening and closing them easier without the added expense and complication of motors.

Anyway, love our CUV!

 

I think many prior BMW 3 Series drivers are either:
1. Enthusiasts, and they are still driving their old E36s b/c they are better driving experiences.
2. Fashionistas, and have moved on to the new trendy, which is not a sedan but some form of SUV/truck.

Also, sales are diluted between 3/4 series now based on doors, and if you add the lifted vs street suspension, I wonder what the totals are and if they are really changed in aggregate?

 

The 'X' models are out selling the sedans/coupes probably 10 to 1. I found a sales link the other day and probably should've posted it, not sure I can find it again. Was truly telling. People just aren't buying sedans in the numbers they used to, but BMW sales are on the rise, so they aren't losing sleep over it.

Euro brands are really the only ones still offering sedans and/or coupes these days.

 

Well all I can tell you is I have ground clearance in a vehicle. Torque vectoring SH-AWD as well. A better and more sophisticated AWD system than anything Subaru currently makes. And it didn’t cost much more than that Crosstrek. It was 33.5k new. It’s got a bed, in bed trunk for storing things, and a 5000 lb towing capacity. Probably the same MPG as Boxer 4’s aren’t all that fuel efficient, normally aspirated anyways but it makes 300HP via a proven V6. Probably a wash on insurance costs. It has more seat room for passengers in the back. Legroom, shoulder room, head, and hip room. Then the rear seats can be folded up for a flat floor, so kind of “magic” seats a la the defunct Honda Fit. You factor in the capability via ground clearance, AWD system (mud, sand, and snow modes), bed, towing, it’s really not a contest. And you can’t pivot to driving dynamics because it’s unibody and probably handles better. I test drove the Outback before I bought it and there was no contest in driving dynamics.

And that’s my point about CUV’s. Why? Similar money you can get so much more capability. I’m not saying I’m right, you’re wrong, or vice versa. Just a counterpoint. I don’t see any sense in CUV’s at all. Especially now with Rangers, Mavericks, Ridgelines, etc. There are compact offerings, instead of full size, and the cost isn’t bad at all. CUV’s just eat into hatchbacks, cars/sedans, performance variants, etc. They are like a damn black hole for the automotive market. Just not a fan at all. I understand a Crosstrek, because of the MSRP. It’s the more expensive CUV’s that are 40k, 50k, 60k, 70k, etc. I mean it’s

 

I would agree with this. I don't see the point of CUVs, at least in my lifestyle. I'd rather have a pickup truck because they are more useful

I'd rather haul stuff on a bed compared to the back of a CUV/SUV. A bed is much easier to clean if you want to haul something dirty, and if you are hauling something smelly, you won't get the cabin smelly because the bed is separate. And the sky is the limit too (well, the height of the overpass/tunnel/parking garage is the limit) for how tall of an object you can haul, rather than a roof of a CUV/SUV.

Trucks normally get better towing capacity especially for the money. My '22 Tacoma V6's rated towing capacity (6,400 lbs) is on the lower end of the midsize pickup truck competition (some midsize pickup trucks have a rated towing capacity of 7-7.5k lbs) and yet I was still able to pull a U-Haul trailer with my old S2000 on it while hauling some tools/parts. To have a CUV with similar towing capacity of my Tacoma, I'd have to go for either a Dodge Durango/Jeep Grand Cherokee or step up to some of the expensive European offerings like a Cayenne/Q7/X5, which I can't afford.

And they are also more capable off-roading. Different type of fun too from sports cars

It's also not a complete PITA to park a midsize truck in cities. Full size trucks I can understand they can be a PITA to park.