To the person who said that an S14 will be better balanced than an S50 or any 6-cyl engine, you might wanna recheck that. I6 engines are inherently balanced unlike 4 cylinder engines.

Finding a clean E30 is a pretty hard task but from what I've heard, people prefer the E30 chassis over the E36 for several reasons. Swapping the S50 in there will make for a fun car. A good friend of mine has an S50E30 with a GT35 mounted to a manifold that he designed and built making 512 whp at around 20 psi on E85. It is quite a fun car to be in, but its only downfall is the lack of tire size that could be put on there without modifying the body.

Here's his car:





And here's one of my other friend who is planning on doing a turbo M50 iirc.

 

"if done right..." LOL

Oh my sides hurt.

Good luck with that.

 

That is a ridiculous setup right there. S50 + boost = monstrous. Has your friend done a 5-lug conversion so he can try to run 17's? Might have to do a bit of widebody to fit fat enough tires on the rear.


Yes, if done right, as in wired up correctly. Let's hear your experience with S50/S52 and/or E30 swaps.

Come on, let's hear your evidence to the contrary. Hundreds if not thousands of these swaps have been done, and the only unreliable ones are the ones which aren't wired/tuned correctly. Castro Motorsports (one of the best E30 shops in SoCal) did the swap on the particular car I'm looking at and do amazing work, so it's basically as if it were done OEM.

But go on, let's hear your great evidence against the S50/S52. I guess we'll be waiting a while because you don't know WTF you're even saying.

 

Oh yeah, if Castro did it, and it's well documented, then you should be good.

I'm just looking for a regular E30 with an M20 (not an eta... lol) in it. I'll do up the suspension with some Ground Control coils, ireland or UUC sways, put some decent 15x8 or 15x9 wheels on it, intake-exhaust, seat, and call it a day.

As fun as it will be for a canyon run or auto-x day, it still won't be able to keep up with an S2000 in the turns - I'm keeping that for the track car. That and the S2K will be more reliable on the track.

E30 with M20 will be reliable enough as a DD, just gotta keep up with the belts, water pump, and fluids. And, at $3k, I won't feel bad or worry about the car much.

For me, it's more a nostalgia car that can be reliable, serve as a DD, and will still handle well and be a relatively enjoyable ride and get equal or better gas mileage.

As for everyone knocking them for not being reliable, ehhh, they're still around, right? And plenty of them have 200-300K+ on the original motors... sounds reliable to me. There are also documented cases of M20 motors running for 1million miles.

As for swaps, well, I don't know enough about that to throw my 2 cents in, but the OEM stuff is definitely reliable.

 

I'd say kick the M20 out and throw in an M50. Much more modern engine with even better MPG/reliability/power. They're like $500 to swap in.

The reason the S50/S52 is so reliable, in fact, is because they're stroked M50's. It's a simple, functional, reliable design. You don't have to worry about timing belts because they have timing chains, all you gotta change out is a better water pump + radiator because the stock E36 stuff is plastic trash.

That's one of the reasons the S50/S52 is such a great swap: even more reliable and fuel efficient than an M20, and they run FOREVER. All you need to do is change the oil on them and fix the VANOS issue for $150-300 if it comes up - some never have the VANOS rattle issue.

Actually, Castro did ALL of the work on the car - they did the suspension, the swap, replaced every bushing, they dynotuned the S50, they made the exhaust... that's the reason why I'm 90% sure I'm going to buy this particular car. In fact, I called up Castro 2 days ago asking if they knew of any good swaps for sale, and Chris told me that he knew a guy that might want to sell his because he'd been thinking about it, and he recommended it as a great car to buy. So on Tuesday, Castro will be doing a PPI for me and if that turns out well, I'll buy the car shortly after that.

 

Your assertion that "the only unreliable ones are the ones which aren't wired/tuned correctly" has a hole the size of a continent. It's only when the owner starts to encounter issues that the swap becomes "not done right." Obviously everything, "when done right" is perfect. But even factory cars have service intervals, with the number of systems affected increasing as the car ages. You know, cars that were "done right" from the factory?

When you start swapping motors you introduce issues the factory car never suffered. Did you increase the size of the radiator to accomodate the power increase? If you did, what got moved/removed to make room for the new, larger unit? How does the increase in underhood heat affect the rubber hoses, power steeering seals and hoses, etc? How does the increase in horsepower and torque affect the rear end? Have you addressed differential fluid cooling? Is the braking system upgraded to deal with the increased power?

Let's stop using the word "reliable" and start using something more descriptive and accurate - "maintenance costs." In a 23 year old car of any make, the systems that require service/replacement extends to pretty much the entire vehicle. So your maintenance costs are going to increase with the age of the car, as more and more systems reach the end of their service life. Brake master cyinders don't last forever. Wheel bearings wear out, as do shocks and struts, bushings, tie rods, u-joints, ad naseum. The BMW on the badge doesn't exempt you from these concerns. And in point of fact, while an older BMW isn't necessarily more prone to issues than many other makes, the cost of replacement parts can be significantly higher just by added costs of importing even if there was no such thing as a "BMW tax."

You've never owned a swapped E30 so you are in no position to educate me with your own experience. I have had many friends and family who have owned BMW's of various vintages, and while they are fine cars in my estimation, one has to be willing to pay to drive them. Especially as they age. If you want an E30 to be as trouble-free as a new vehicle you will pay more than you would for a comparable new model. Because you have to repair/replace all the worn and aged rubber and mechanical parts to new condition right up front. Otherwise you are driving a car full of worn parts, waiting for failure. Either way you have the additional labor and parts costs of an engine swap.

I have also owned many older cars, and spent plenty of time and money on routine maintenance, giving me a perspective you lack.

I'm not saying it isn't worth it for an enthusiast, I'm saying you cannot justify it as somehow a practical and cost-effective purchase. Any attempt to dismiss very rational caveats is a sign of wishful thinking, not an informed viewpoint.

 

Your assertion that "the only unreliable ones are the ones which aren't wired/tuned correctly" has a hole the size of a continent. It's only when the owner starts to encounter issues that the swap becomes "not done right." Obviously everything, "when done right" is perfect. But even factory cars have service intervals, with the nuumber of suystems affected increasing as the car ages. You know, cars that were "done right" from the factory?

When you start swapping motors you introduce issues the factory car never suffered. Did you increase the size of the radiator to accomodate the power increase? If you did, what got moved/removed to make room for the new, larger unit? How does the increase in underhood heat affect the rubber hoses, power steeering seals and hoses, etc? How does the increase in horsepower and torque affect the rear end? Have you addressed differential fluid cooling? Is the braking system upgraded to deal with the increased power?

Let's stop using the word "reliable" and start using something more descriptive and accurate - "maintenance costs." In a 23 year old car of any make, the systems that require service/replacement extends to pretty much the entire vehicle. So your maintenance costs are going to increase with the age of the car, as more and more systems reach the end of their service life. Brake master cyinders don't last forever. Wheel bearings wear out, as do shocks and struts, bushings, tie rods, u-jionts, ad naseum. The idea that because it says BMW on the badge doesn't exempt you from these concerns. And in point of fact, while an older BMW isn't necessarily more prone to issues than many other makes, the cost of replacement parts can be significantly higher just by added costs of importing even if there was no such thing as a "BMW tax."

You've never owned a swapped E30 so you are in no position to educate me with your own experience. I have had many friends and family who have owned BMW's of various vintages, and while they are fine cars in my estimation, one has to be willing to pay to drive them. Especially as they age. If you want an E30 to be as trouble-free as a new vehicle you will pay more than you would for a comparable new model. Because you have to repair/replace all the worn and aged rubber and mechanical parts to new condition right up front. Otherwise you are driving a car full of worn parts, waiting for failure. Either way you have the additional labor and parts costs of an engine swap.

I have also owned many older cars, and spent plenty of time and money on routine maintenance, giving me a perspective you lack.

I'm not saying it isn't worth it for an enthusiast, I'm saying you cannot justify it as somehow a practical and cost-effective purchase. Any attempt to dismiss very rational caveats is a sign of wishful thinking, not an informed viewpoint.
[/quote]

And you obviously know nothing about what an M50/M52/S50/S52 swap entails and why it's a reliable swap. Your whole 'NOT A RELIABLE SWAP' generalization is full of holes the size of continents, so let's address that.

All of that is taken care of. You use the same size radiator as an E36, but upgraded so that it lasts longer (aluminum instead of plastic), so cooling etc is all taken care of. All belts and hoses are refreshed. The differentials from E30's or E36's can be swapped in, they're pretty much the same. This particular car is using a 3.25 LSD, which will handle 350-400 whp no problem. The transmission is a ZF320 from the E36 M3. Brake booster is upgraded as well. Everything necessary for the swap has been compensated for and done many times over, this is a common/popular swap. The shop that did the swap is regarded as one of the best if not THE best E30 shops in all of Southern California. This swap is top-tier.

Parts for E30's are dirt cheap, much akin to the cost of Civic parts (maybe a bit more), and you can also grab parts from any junkyard for testing/replacement. They're incredibly easy to work on and don't have a ton of issues overall, even for their age. All of the various suspension has been upgraded/replaced with more reliable/stronger parts.

So no, I won't be driving an old car full of worn parts because this is a well-done swap and the previous owner is an enthusiast who has maintained the car well and upgraded everything that needs to be done on an E30.

Again, my own experience + experience of various swap owners who I have spoken to + the highly rated shop that works on these cars/swaps all day everyday >>> your experience. Your generalization of swaps/old cars does not apply here. It doesn't matter if you've owned old cars and have 'perspective that I lack', you haven't owned THIS particular old car. Sorry man.

Again, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't make generalizations. I've done my homework on these cars, the swap itself, and I'm well equipped to handle it and understand the bit of extra care an older car needs. Luckily, E30's are basically RWD German Hondas so it's not that hard to keep up and the engine is pretty much bulletproof so it'll be similar in upkeep to my S2000/TL, and even simpler to work on on. For the amount of miles I'll be putting on in daily driving, this is a fast, fun, fuel efficient and reliable swap that is perfect for my needs and has been worked on by an extremely reputable shop. I'll be sure to post a new thread if my new DD blows up and I have to run crying to you, Nunco, and kiss your ass for your incredible foresight and wisdom.

 

<sigh> I guess I'll throw in my two cents.
Reliability is an interesting measure, so I guess you gotta start by having a benchmark; so what's the benchmark? A brand new corolla? How are we going to comparing them, a fresh swap to a brand new car? Etc etc. What is reliable? I ask this because to some it's simply mean never left you stranded. Others clump any issues together and categorize it under reliability. In this, I believe, the argument for reliability is definitely arguable.
I will also say this, enthusiasts, especially those who are mechanically inclined, have a higher threshold of, uhm, reliability than most. Which is why if you ask a BMW enthusiast who also so happens to be a BMW tech how reliable they are, they will say yeeeaaaah all it needs is this and that and you can drive across country during a heat wave uphill.
With the honda b series swapped cars and such, I see alot of stock engine cars go beyond 200K, but I havent seen anyone who did a swap at say 100K and stay with that exact engine to 300K. Of course there are alot of other variables involved like those who swap motors tend to beat on their cars, or that cars with swaps tend to be dogs, etc. Also note, remember during the 90s all those highly modified, full bodykit, frankenstein swapped with FI, etc etc cars? Where did they all go? I mean there was a time when you couldn't walk two blocks without seeing at least one body kitted fartcan civic (I live in CA), yet they all disappeared. But again, alot of other variables play into this.
I guess my measure is this, would I feel confident giving this to my mom to daily everyday? Or would I be getting more calls from her.
Cars break down over time, metal gets rust, upholstery gets dingy, bushings go bad, weird electrical problems pop up, lights start going out, car starts throwing weird symptoms, etc.
So with all that said, alot of people will argue with "Old does not mean unreliable, swapped does not mean unreliable." If you were here when zx10 was still around, he'd tell you that FDs are rock solid reliable.

 

So you want a reliable and fun rwd coupe as a daily driver?

Why not just pick up an ft86/brz, throw on an aftermarket blower or turbo and call it a day instead of dealing with a 20 yo car and engine swap?

 

I think for an enthusiast like me, it'll be reliable because I'll know what to look for and what to deal with. Maybe my mom wouldn't call it reliable, but that's the kind of consumer that neglects maintenance until it's obvious something is wrong. For someone like me that gets things fixed and knows what to look out for, it should be pretty damn trouble free.

Because why would I spend $25k+ on a slower, newer car that'll depreciate far more rapidly than an older car that has already bottomed out and is now appreciating thanks to high demand and increasing rarity of clean examples of the chassis?

Not my cup of tea. Same reason I'd rather have an S2000 over an FR-S/BRZ. It literally makes no sense for me to spend 1.5x as much on something like a brand new car for a daily driver, especially considering both an S2000 and E30 S50 swapped are far more fun, powerful cars than the BRZ/FR-S, at least to me. If I was going to spend $25k on a car, I'd just get a 335i under warranty and chip it, or get a MK IV Supra, or maybe a lightly used C6 Vette. BRZ/FR-S doesn't hold a candle to any of those cars.