On performance oriented vehicles, the ability to turn it off should always be there.

 

our 7 (with DSCIII) has been lodged in snow twice this winter already (trying to leave our street no less)....once you turn off DSC, you can power the 7 out of anything....

my S2000 (supercharged, no less), with no aids, has not shown a hint of weakness in toronto winters.

 

The original question, which seems to be largely forgotten, was: "Would electronic aids make you a better driver overtime?" (sic) The answer is: of course not. Taking responsibility for a task out of a person's hands will not make them better at that task. Owning a calculator does not make you better at math.

Having said that, I agree with the thread consensus that most people are such poor drivers that the more electronic nannies they can have, the better. And I submit that even good drivers are better off with some electronic safeguards in place with today's relatively affordable 400+ hp cars.

 

there is a difference making a driver better and saving a bad driver from himself

 

Uh... Traction Control is an electronic aid too. I guess F1 racers are all bad drivers... HAHAHAHA.

 

I gather logic isn't your strong suit.

"Traction control doesn't make you a better driver" does not contradict "Good drivers can benefit from traction control" any more than "Calculators don't make you better at math" contradicts "Mathematicians can benefit from calculators."

Also, there's a vast difference between competition-tuned traction control and the systems available for most street cars.

 

Simple and to the point.

These aids save you from foolishness/stupidity, but do not make you a better driver.

 

You must be wrong. I have a Math degree.

Like you said, Mathematicans benefit from using calculators so they do not make mistakes doing basic calucations... and in most cases, get faster/better results.

Same as electronic aids. So anyone that said using electronic aids (properly tuned/designed) are bad, then they don't know what they are saying.

I was trying to make a point because the best of the best uses electronic aids too.

 

It depends on what you mean by "better". If better = less likely to crash then yes, I think electronic systems make for better drivers most of the time.

But I don't think electronic aids can make you a better driver as in "more skilled", although in some cases, particularly in the case of the C6 Corvette's Competition Mode, they could possibly help some drivers acheive lower lap times.

However I have seen quite a few cases on the roads here in Dubai where some jerk in a BMW or an S class Mercedes can cut across 5 lanes of traffic and shoot up an exit ramp at the last minute doing over 200 kilometres per hour because his car's advanced stability system allows him to do so reliably without losing control and crumpling his car into a little ball of tinfoil. In this case it depends on your point of view: from the jerk's POV he defenitely is a better driver however I doubt many of the other ppl on the road would agree with him.

 

I think it makes people a WORSE driver. My friend used to have a G35 that he drove like crap. When he turns, he wold make this "S" style turn (when he was entering a right turn, he would make a small left turn first) for some reason (too much initial D?). I told him this was the wrong way to drive based from my experience with my s2000 and its lack of traction control, but he disagreed. One time, he turned off his traction control, and he spun out when exiting a parking area at 15 mph! He didn't understand why that happened, and I told him that you can't make drastic turns with a RWD like a FWD, but he still doesn't believe me.

His next car was an S2000 and in two weeks of having it, he crashed that car by trying to take a turn in the freeway at 120 mph. I was in the car when it happened. Even though it was outrageously fast, I thought he could've taken that turn since it wasn't a hard turn. But, his habit of the "S" turns, he oversteered and lost his two week old S2k.