I guess none of you guys are Car & Driver subscribers. Last month they did their annual "Fast Four" article. Basically it's a challenge/test of cars with 4 cylinder engines from aftermarket tuners. They had an Elise there by Hondata. Basically, they stuck an engine from an RSX-S into an Elise and added either a turbo or SC. I don't remember which. They also added a few other bits to the engine. The HP claim was like 320. The author stated this car would have won the test if they had put better brakes on the car and swapped out the stock wheels for a better contact patch.

 

I agree with rich337 here.

Also, the right questions were not asked, IMO.

For example. As far as technology goes, the 2ZZ is more technologically advanced than the F20C. The new for 06 F22 is only more advanced in the fact that it has throttle-by-wire, otherwise, the 2ZZ is more advanced than both the F20C and the F22.

Power output is a different story. Both engines have similar purposes, however the F20/F22 gets it done much more effectively.

Tuning, another aspect to look that. The F20/F22 as well as the K20 are much better tuned than the 2ZZ. As mentioned before, the midrange power of the 2ZZ is very flat and prolonged. The F20 feels this way also, however better gearing makes this less on an issue.

Problems with the 2ZZ, its tuning, and accompanying transmission. Toyota didn't seem to think that owners would mind a car that falls flat on its face between shifts. In my personal opinion, they did not engineer this combo properly. The motor has a flat midrange that is prolonged, then followed by a top end that is too shortlived.

In addition, once you shift, you are off the cam for a 2-500 rpms. This is a big problem. The motor feels like it falls on its face. Lotus had a good idea on how to get around this. The temporary, time limited, 8500 redline really takes this problem away from this powerplant combo. In reality, the one other thing this car needs is better tuning of its bigger cam at lower RPMs. However, nobody in the Celica community has been able to succeed in this. Toyota also killed the Celica by re-programing the 02-up ECU with a 7800 rev limiter.


Lastly, the big one. This motor is not well suited to a Matrix! Even worse, Toyota had the car and technology to put this motor where it belonged all along, the MR-2 Spyder. But instead, they chose to give the idea away to Lotus. What a shame...

 

To clear up a couple things..

The 2zz has had drive-by-wire since 03'

The Celica may have had a redline of 7800, but fuel cutoff wasn't until 8450. The Elise just uses the 8400 fuel cut as the redline. And even when shifting at fuel cut in the celica you can't land "lift". The elise (as far as I know) uses the same gearing in the tranny, but they lowered the 2nd cam engagment to 6000rpms instead of the Celica's 6200rpms.

02 was the only year of the 7800 fuel cut. All other years have the 8450 fuel cut.

 

eh, i've met the owner of forcedfed (my friend works for them) and they have a different view. let's just say there were some "politics" involved.

 

Bingo!

 

To my knowledge, the stock fuel cutoff on the 2ZZ is 8,250 and not 8,450.

 

It's 8400-8450. I owned a 2000 GT-S for 4 years.

 

I don't know about how "advanced" either engine is, but the F22 is more reliable than the 2zz. Go to a Celica forum and search "lift bolts".

In any case, Toyota screwed up with the gearing. When you shift at redline in the S2000, you stay in vtec. With the Celica, it was always 50/50 you'd stay in lift. With the 2002 and 2005 models, the fuel cutoff was too low and you'd always fall out of lift. I can only assume the Elise is the same way.

 

[QUOTE=Euclid,Nov 1 2005, 07:03 AM] It's 8400-8450.

 

If you're just going to define technologically advanced by the cam phasing, then yes, but there is other qualitees of the s2000 engine (fiber-reinforced cylinder walls) that could lead someone to another conclusion.