https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/4/21...y-ultium-tesla

GM - "Okay, now that Tesla is the most valuable player, maybe its on to something."

Ten new EVs in five years. Maybe the third time is the charm?

 

Dumbest move they'll ever make.

Too expensive for mainstream consumers (and will be for quite some time), too much reliance on undeveloped infrastructure, investment that requires a commitment to significantly improved technology not yet developed or commercialized (ie, a massive leap in battery technology), limited availability of global resources to support such a massive demand on certain metals and elements (which will drive up the cost of batteries until/unless they develop all-new batteries that use other more-common materials), etc, etc, etc.

EVs have their place but hybrid technology is the best of both worlds, does NOT require a technological leap to properly implement, is less expensive, allows for long-distance, rural or cold-weather driving/ownership with minimal performance/range impact and still provides improved environmental impact without nearly as much risk.

Choosing the Hummer as their first new EV only confirms my worst fears - they're still too stupid to figure out where to go. Seriously - how many people are going to buy an electric Hummer, no matter how quick or powerful it is? What a waste of time/money/effort.

By all means, design and build EVs but recognize that all of the eco-warriors and Green Peace won't make them profitable. The lower-priced EVs tend to be money losing propositions and there are only so many customers for EVs in the $50K+ (or $75K+, more often than not) purchasing demographic. It's a race to the bottom until the technology makes the batteries (specifically) cheaper, less exotic to produce, and fully supported by our power grids. You'll have to keep a toe in the technological water to keep up but you'd be better off with moderate investment (to stay on top of gains and improvements) until the battery tech justifies higher investment into higher production numbers. In other words, the R&D needs to continue but you don't need 10 vehicles to prove it out. Pick a couple vehicles to showcase and develop batteries that will do what everyone wants - charge in 10 minutes, last 15 years and weigh 2/3 of what they do now... Look at Toyota's first Prius as an example - get it right before you go big. Now, Toyota DOMINATES the hybrid market because they did it right, they did it carefully and they had a roadmap for if/when the technology proved out. Those early Prius models are virtually bulletproof, heavily over-designed and -built and they set a foundation for the future of the technology.

Tesla's valuation is ridiculous by any standard; it has no logical basis (another "tech bubble" waiting to burst). Trying to "keep up" with Tesla will lead to yet another bankruptcy for GM.

Quick anecdote: a friend of mine has a Tesla Model 3 and he is the ONLY PERSON IN HIS TOWNHOME ROW that can have an in-house vehicle charger. Why? The main supply to the townhouse row is maxed out. They'd have to spend tens of thousands of dollars for every individual row in order to upgrade service and allow more electric chargers for each home. The power grid needs to not only be able to provide but also distribute electricity everywhere (above and beyond current demands - forgive the pun) in order for EVs to be a reasonable "every person" vehicle. That will require billions, more likely trillions, of dollars in upgrades and investment...

 

My advice to GM is make solid reliable products (which they do for the most part) that don't chintz on materials quality (which the do on lots of their products) and sell at a decent price. Work on some of your exterior styling because Chevy design language looks bargain basement IMHO. Get rid of the over use of plasti-chrome and redesign the bowtie emblem because it has become synonymous with cheap.

And dump the friggen G D "real people" ad campaign. It is the worst in all of automotive advertising. It is embarrassing and cringeworthy. It makes it appear you are desperate to sell your product and hurts your brand image. I want you to provide me with a top level interior, not have bumpkins tell me the Malibu is just like a Lexus. Do this and the cars sell themselves.

I want a Colorado. I would love a new (or used C7) Vette if I had room and money in the stable, and would also take a V8 Camaro. I like the Malibu but would buy several others in the segment before it, and like nothing else you build.

Whether you make an electric car or not makes no difference to me as a consumer unless it blows me away for styling, range, and price, which I very much doubt on all fronts.

Just rambling thoughts.

 

My wife works for an electric utility, and you could not be more right. If you switched 10% of the current vehicle grid to electric overnight, you'd melt the grid.

We still have a bunch of capacity to add more electrics to the fleet, but there is a point where without massive investment, you can't feed enough juice into the wires to power the cars, and you don't have the ability to generate the power when they keep adding legal requirements that x% come from solar, and y% come from wind. You might be able to meet some of those goals for renewables if demand stays the same, but increase demand a ton and you need more nuclear and you need to mine coal.

My brother does not have a super long commute and spends an extra $30 a month for his Tesla. That was on top of his ~ $50 a month base electric bill. Though he no longer uses gas for the car, he increased his electric demand by 60% when he added the car to his bill. What would happen if even 1 million households increased their electric power demand by 60% per month? You need to fire up them coal plants, that's what.

 

Consider this our bi-annual agreement.

I bet the people who made this decision say kids on The Facebook want cars like this.

 

The issue with GM is they can make a decent product but 3 years later it's gone. The amount of money they spend in R&D and start up costs to make all of these new models just to be cut 3 years later is absurd. I always thought he Volt was a great idea but it got axed,

 

I seriously shopped the most recent Volt, and even looked at a Bolt. It all came back to 1980's quality interior in both. The carpet in the VOLT was so cheap I could not stand it, and again, I hate plasti-chrome all over the outside. They made a Caddy version of it called the ELR. That car was cool inside and out, but I think they wanted $70k for it and it was essentially the same car. They could have sold it for $40k in droves as a Chevy, instead it sold in low numbers for Chevy, and almost nil for Caddy. Other manufacturers make Caddy level interiors and use high quality materials in pedestrian cars. See Honda Accord. They could make that car for $40k as a Chevy, but they bargain basement the details in that model and want a $30k upcharge to get to "nice". Sorry, as a car buyer, I want "nice" to start with. Mazda does it in their cheap cars, GM should look into it.

 

Lots of stuff going on here- especially given that this is driven (see what I did there?) by INVESTORS. Investors are driving (again, I did it) what GM's long term choices are. With Tesla being overvalued and investors going apeshit crazy over its value, GM thinks its gonna follow suite with this announcement?

Has anyone seen the build quality of a Tesla? I'd say its not better than GM quality...and yet, the now car is the Tesla whatever its called.

But maybe GM will be able to use lots of incentives to put an electric fleet on the road that out strips Tesla.
Vader1 made a great point about the power grid being able to maintain a fleet of EV's.

this does nothing to make GM more appealing to me given the only vehicle I'd consider is the ss1LE.
I think I'll keep using recycled dinosaurs for now.
darcy

 

So much for Tesla not making an impact. People shorting the stock, people bitching incessantly about them, complaining about the loan they got and paid back, bitching about incentives that pale in comparison to oil subsidies, etc. I don’t want a Tesla, zero interest at the cost, and I’ve been DD”ing an EV for 6 years now. But their impact is pretty big taking on 100+ year old companies. I am reminded of the dipshits at GM and the EV1. You could have been the leader in the industry but you canceled the EV1 program in favor of the Hummer brand. Boy that worked out well.

 

So many people don’t understand business. GM and Ford were just waiting to see it telsa would prove the market. If we have learned anything; to be first is not always to be the winner.

GM and Ford will eat Tesla’s lunch on middle class buyers. Germany will take the high end.

tesla as you know it under the awful leadership cannot sustain itself.