Got Brakes?
Originally posted by steve c
My bet is the braking is not much if any better than stock. The stock caliper / rotor setup is capable of locking the wheels up -- beyond that you need more tire to decrease stopping distances.
The small advantage those rotors might have in cooling capacity is quickly negated by the increase in weight.
My bet is the braking is not much if any better than stock. The stock caliper / rotor setup is capable of locking the wheels up -- beyond that you need more tire to decrease stopping distances.
The small advantage those rotors might have in cooling capacity is quickly negated by the increase in weight.
For the most part, all these brake kits provide are good looks (I must say large brakes look really nice), better modulation/feel, and little to no fade.
And yes...the 355 is the nicest looking Ferrari ever.
Re: Will bigger brakes stop an ABS-equipped car in shorter distance?
Date: Wed Jun 7 23:56:01 2000
Posted By: Arnold Anderson, Staff, Tribology/Friction systems, retired (Ford Scientific Laboratory)
Area of science: Engineering
ID: 959965680.Eg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message:
Brakes do not stop cars--not directly. That is why they are called wheel
brakes. The wheel brakes stop the wheel. Tires stop the car. Antilock
brake systems (ABS) stop cars faster (most of the time) because they
prevent wheel locking. A locked wheel typically has a lower tire-road
friction than when rolling with some slippage.
Tire-road friction normally reaches a maximum when the slip rate is around
20%. The reason for this slippage is that the tire is elastic, and must
deform to transmit the tire-road tread force to the wheel. When the tire-
road friction is greatest, this deformation (rolling 'slip') is about 4
centimeters (1.6 inches) for a typical passenger car tire on a good road
surface.
Present antilock brake systems do not optimize the tire-road friction.
However, they do prevent wheel locking. This does two things; it permits
vehicle steering control (very important) and usually increases the tire-
road friction, compared with locked-wheel braking.
If you want to stop a car in the shortest possible distance, you first
should apply the brakes very rapidly. The rotating components of a car,
mostly the wheel-tire assemblies, provide about 5 percent of the vehicle's
kinetic energy. Rapidly braking the wheels helps reduce this energy and
also starts the tire tread deformation needed to maximize tire-road
forces. Since the wheels are directly bolted to the brake drum or disc,
almost any torque can be used. More is better in this operation.
When the tires reach maximum tire-road friction, you then should reduce
the brake pedal force to maintain maximum friction. Experienced
performance test drivers can do this surprisingly well. Some use the tire
sound to help indicate the degree of slippage.
Now you have enough knowledge to answer your own question. Brakes that
are large enough to just lock the wheels (but no more) will complete a
stop as fast as larger brakes. However, larger brakes may reduce the time
to initiate braking of the tires. Since this is at the beginning of
braking (when the vehicle is moving fast), a small savings of time can
shorten stopping distance by a significance amount.
If your goal is to stop even faster, you might wish to consider increasing
the load on the tires. Racecars use airfoils (small wings) to increase
the tire loading. If this added down force is equal to the initial car
weight, the stopping distance can be cut in half. With this scenario, you
definitely will need bigger brakes to generate the additional torque.
Some racecars have used air 'dams' that are employed during braking to
increase aerodynamic drag. Such devices have little value, however, at
legal highway speeds.
Date: Wed Jun 7 23:56:01 2000
Posted By: Arnold Anderson, Staff, Tribology/Friction systems, retired (Ford Scientific Laboratory)
Area of science: Engineering
ID: 959965680.Eg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message:
Brakes do not stop cars--not directly. That is why they are called wheel
brakes. The wheel brakes stop the wheel. Tires stop the car. Antilock
brake systems (ABS) stop cars faster (most of the time) because they
prevent wheel locking. A locked wheel typically has a lower tire-road
friction than when rolling with some slippage.
Tire-road friction normally reaches a maximum when the slip rate is around
20%. The reason for this slippage is that the tire is elastic, and must
deform to transmit the tire-road tread force to the wheel. When the tire-
road friction is greatest, this deformation (rolling 'slip') is about 4
centimeters (1.6 inches) for a typical passenger car tire on a good road
surface.
Present antilock brake systems do not optimize the tire-road friction.
However, they do prevent wheel locking. This does two things; it permits
vehicle steering control (very important) and usually increases the tire-
road friction, compared with locked-wheel braking.
If you want to stop a car in the shortest possible distance, you first
should apply the brakes very rapidly. The rotating components of a car,
mostly the wheel-tire assemblies, provide about 5 percent of the vehicle's
kinetic energy. Rapidly braking the wheels helps reduce this energy and
also starts the tire tread deformation needed to maximize tire-road
forces. Since the wheels are directly bolted to the brake drum or disc,
almost any torque can be used. More is better in this operation.
When the tires reach maximum tire-road friction, you then should reduce
the brake pedal force to maintain maximum friction. Experienced
performance test drivers can do this surprisingly well. Some use the tire
sound to help indicate the degree of slippage.
Now you have enough knowledge to answer your own question. Brakes that
are large enough to just lock the wheels (but no more) will complete a
stop as fast as larger brakes. However, larger brakes may reduce the time
to initiate braking of the tires. Since this is at the beginning of
braking (when the vehicle is moving fast), a small savings of time can
shorten stopping distance by a significance amount.
If your goal is to stop even faster, you might wish to consider increasing
the load on the tires. Racecars use airfoils (small wings) to increase
the tire loading. If this added down force is equal to the initial car
weight, the stopping distance can be cut in half. With this scenario, you
definitely will need bigger brakes to generate the additional torque.
Some racecars have used air 'dams' that are employed during braking to
increase aerodynamic drag. Such devices have little value, however, at
legal highway speeds.
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