I don't get it, honestly. It's cool but when Porsche does it with a GT3 (not even the RS) for less money and way less power, you have to wonder where the magic is. Porsche is doing a similar lap time with a lot less of everything - less power, less tire, less aero, and yes, less weight, for less money.

Granted, Ford's conditions for the lap weren't perfect. They got three laps total but the first one was the best of the lot, so maybe it's a 6:50.xxx lap time that's possible, maybe lower (in warmer, dryer conditions) but still, it just doesn't seem to justify the big price tag or all the hype.

 

I think the notion of "value" is totally irrelevant with these cars Albert. People who will be buying these will likely be adding them to a collection and quite literally have money to burn. If you're a mustang "fan," this is your halo car. I'm happy to see Ford is making it. I've learned to appreciate all sports cars for what they are, because we simply don't have many left and any attempt by a manufacturer is appreciated.

With that said, I have a new respect/appreciation for the Mustang. I took a buddy's 2016 GT out for a session on track and my oh my, I was very impressed. The Coyote has been dead nuts reliable for him, it makes good power, good brakes, good steering response (305 square doesn't hurt ), good suspension, and was very composed. I don't want to say "easy" to drive, but it was definitely confidence inspiring. I know the Porsche GT3 is the high benchmark for everything, but I'm happy to see manufacturers still attempt to make good/fun cars even if they can't eclipse the GT3. Heck, for a fun track car, the Mustang has to be up there in terms of bang for your buck.

To add to this thought, who cares if the car is slower than a GT3 RS? 99.9% of drivers can't drive this car or the GT3 RS to within 10% of its capabilities so it's all paper racing and nonsense anyway.

 

^I think the big thorn in people's side is the price. The domestics have always been about matching/beating the Europeans for considerably less. But here it's the opposite.

Meanwhile we're all pretty confident that Chevy is going to waltz up with the ZR1 and match/beat the Ford...for $100-150k less.

Honestly for me, if Ford wants so badly to have a high level sports car...THEN MAKE ONE. Don't bend over backwards to make the Mustang do the job.

 

These days I have a more pragmatic view on price. This is obviously a super luxury item and no one is forced to buy it. Is it evil that they're pricing this "high?" I don't think so. Just because previous convention was that they were cheaper doesn't mean it ought to be that way. I'm sure they spent a pretty penny on engineering costs, R&D, etc. They ought to be able to recoup some of that imo.

Yes and no.. It's always more complicated than that. Developing a whole new chassis would probably be very expensive. Hard to get the business to sign off on that one.

 

I wasn't suggesting that Ford was "evil" for charging more for the GTD. I fully believe that they're losing money on each one, which would back up the point I was making. That being Ford's lack of prowess.

And to your second comment, well yes. And that's also why Ford didn't compete in GT3. They didn't have a car for it. I didn't say it wasn't complicated, but if you want to compete with high end sports cars then...you build high end sports cars, haha.

 

7 minutes? Pfffft...... I could do that in a Transit.

 

I agree that value in the traditional sense doesn't matter as much in the 300k market segment as it does in the 20k market segment, however value is still a factor. People go on and on about Porsche's driving feel, but modern Porsches still deliver very competitive numbers, practically class leading, so it is very much a factor. People don't discuss the usability of cars in the this segment because afterall it should be car #3+ in your stable, but one thing alot of high sought after cars have in common across all price segments is usability. Poll a group of enthusiasts for their dream car, you're much more likely get McClaren F1 over say a Ferrari FXX, in fact I don't even know when was the last time I even heard anyone even talk about it. Look at the cars with the highest resale values, the most outrageous ADMs, there is absolutely a value proposition a car needs to have until you get to the money is no object oil sheik tech billionaire sort of money.

If you think that mustang is good, you should check out the Camaro SS 1LE. I prefer the Coyote engine only because of the note it sings, but the rest of the car (aside from looks lol) I much prefer the Camaro.

But this is sorta the issue with Ford's position with the Mustang currently. I get making a halo version of a beloved car, but I think Ford fumbled in that they missed their target audience. Sure, people will take inspirations from the GTD to make their 4 cylinder Mustang look that way, but the core group/targeted demograph will find nothing relatable or aspirational with this new Mustang.

It feels like Ford wants to go up market as pretty much every short sighted company wants to do these days, target the more profitable premium market. The issue is that Ford doesn't have the chops to cater to that client segment, in fact if Porsche/Lambo didn't have VAG support, Ferrari too (or was it Fiat, keep forgeting), etc you'll learn quickly it's not a good market to enter. The 2016 Mustang you mentioned is a great car, beloved. Here's the thing, brand new a base GT with the performance pack stickered for 36k in 2016, and you can absolutely buy them for 30k, many dealers across the US listed them on Autotrader for 29k brand new. Now they want 40k for a base GT. BASE. No excuses, it's the same platform from 2015, same engine architecture, and all the updates like the digital dash and such actually makes the car cheaper to produce. There is zero excuse for that large of a price increase.

Same could be said about the GTR, unless you believe (as I do) that they weren't making much if any money on them early on, and over time they smartly reduced production and made everything a special edition. Thing is though the GTR was always a luxury good priced car, whereas you can literally rent a Mustang right now. And the GTR hardly did Nissan any favors in saving the company.

Imo, the Mustang should be to Ford like the Miata is to Mazda, like the rotisserie chicken is to Costco- a reminder and representation of what your company is all about. It's not about maximizing profit, but rather an exercise in problem solving. I'm not saying lose money on them, I am saying figure it out. Because any idiot can raise prices and cut costs to turn a profit.

From this perspective I think the GTD fails. I find nothing desirable about it. Has alot of cool stuff, but not anything we haven't seen. Oh look, a swan neck spoiler, vented fenders, gee where did we see that before? Engine? Could get something similar in 1/3 the price from Ford themselves. The suspension is cool, race car even, but doesn't negate the fact that despite being gutted and purpose built, the damn thing still weighs 3600lbs. For me it just serves as a reminder of how compromised of a platform the chassis already was. If they achieved the numbers, did so in a street car package, and for 1/3 of the price, even if they weren't quite as fast, that'd be far more impressive. That extra few seconds always end up costing far more, I think they're just losing their way.

 

This completely goes against the grassroots motorsports ethos and everyone that modifies their car to make it faster. I get it though, the car snobs don't like to brush elbows with "poor folk" who can only afford a Mustang. It's like porsche owners when a miata shows up at a Porsche HPDE and is passing everyone. lol

 

It's not though. FIA GT3 racing is literally designed around more expensive sports cars. It's not a snobbery thing.

 

The Don captured it quite well.

I'd say the premium spot for the Mustang is the Dark Horse. If they wanted to try throwing more goodie bits on it and bring the dark horse up to the $90K mark, that would still be palatable. Would it break sub-7? No.

It's also worth noting that Ford is indeed competing in GT3 racing both with IMSA and FIA as of this year. They had significant presence at the 24hrs of Daytona and Le Mans this year. Guess what car they used for the homologation? Not the GTD. They used the Dark Horse. And, that crazy push-rod rear subframe present in the GTD is not found in the GT3 racecar. Actually, the basis for engineering is Dark Horse --> GT3 Racecar --> GTD. They used the GT3 racecar as the starting point for the GTD. It's just very surprising that that is all that Ford could manage after all of the development and money thrown at the thing.

Agree with the sentiments in giving Ford kudos for making the thing anyway.