I've decided to take a break from the world of motorcycle racing and am looking to pick up a car that I can use for spirited mountain driving and autocrossing from time to time. The only drawback is it needs to be something I can get by with using to commute to work. Doesn't have to be super practical, just legal and reasonable for commuting. I've been looking at some of the more affordable sports cars in say the 30k and under range. I have yet to make my rounds to test drive any of these vehicles, but those on my short list so far are the RX-8, S2000, 350Z, and Evo VIII. I used to drive an NB miata, and while I know they can be very fast in track trim, I'm not considering another one. I'd like to have a 3rd gen RX-7, but they are becoming very hard to find in good shape with low miles, and I don't trust that they have the reliability factor to double as a commuter car. I have kicked around the idea of an E36 M3, but the age and cost of mods scares me. I've spent a little time in a friends heavily modified Evo and it was a very fast ride and seemingly on rails, but I know I can't afford to dump the chunk of change into it to get it to that level, so I'm going to have to check out a stock one before I form an opinion on it.

What I'm interested in is to see what some of you more experienced car guys opinions of these cars and any possible alternatives are. I plan to spend cash over time for suspension, brake, and drive train mods, and I don't yet know which cars lend themselves well to modding, or how they ultimately compare to one another. Looks wise I'm a big fan of the Z, but I've read very mixed opinions on its performance. The Evo and S2000 have pretty much had good reviews across the board, but I haven't found much info on the 8. I'm trying to weed out the opinions given by teenage kids that know nothing beyond what the spec sheet says, and get some opinions from people who have pushed these cars to the limit, and know how they can be woken up by mods.

Any suggestions and opinions are greatly appreciated!

 

Please note: You have posted this in an S2000 forum.

 

I think the S2000, RX-8 or a WRX would all suit your needs. I like the high redline personalities in the RX-8 and S. Two are four-seaters, one is a convertible. All are great on the twisties.

 

I am happy with my s2000, so I'm biased, however I considered a Z and WRX too.

WRX & Z have cheep feeling interiors, Z was lacking in performance imo. I have not driven a modified Z though so maybe that's the key.

 

You are looking at very different cars. If they were more similar, our input would be less biased, but inherintly ours will favor the s2k.

From someone who has owned a decent amount of sportscars I'll give you a couple good and bad points that stick out to me personally, I've had experience with modded and unmodded versions of every car you've listed but the RX-8.

S2k-Very good handling stock form. About as good as a FR setup is going to get on the street in stock form, expectionally well for an open chassis. Very fun to drive and it requires some effort to enjoy the car. Rare compared to the others you listed. The most reliable, and fuel efficient in most cases. Great feel and nimble. Not the greatest highway cruiser of the bunch and doesn't have power on tap, you have to go get it. I also ride/race motorcycles, and enjoy 600's as much as my 1200 for that reason.

350z-Good handling in stock form. Inspires confidence and has a great look. Rigid chassis and also has good feel. A heavier car in most aspects, including turn in etc., but is more stable as well.

Evo-Bang for the buck central. Questionable reliability. Questionable craftsmenship. Great performance, lots of potential in the 2 grand or so range [double engine output]. Feel isn't what I personally want in a sportscar and the steering is tight but not the way I like it. I wish I could go into more detail but it is difficult to describe. Great brakes stock as well.

sti/wrx. Don't like the interiors, especially STI. I'd rather drive in the cars gutted. This may seem harsh but it just doesn't reflect what I like to look at while driving. I have DD several gutted cars, it's not that I think the interior is terrible, just FAR from my taste. However, STI can take a lot of abuse for its inherintly weak 4wd/high output turbo setup. Great performance figures and trackability.

Both 4wd's you are battling the car. On the s2k you are battling the road, in the 350z it's a little of both. I guess that only makes sense to those that have tracked them.

When it comes down to it, I simply enjoy the s2000 more. I could run equal to or better lap times in every other car, but if I gave a $hit about speed to that extent, I'd be on my sportbike or build a racecar. The s2000 is about refinement and extremes. 2ltrs yet 240hp. Open chassis yet extraordinary handling and lightweight. Impracticle yet great leather seats.

The RX-8 is simply not comparable to these cars IMO if performance is one of your top 3 criteria. It has excellent stock handling though, great feel and leverage, reminds of me of an FD. BTW, you can get a FD and 2000 s2k for 25-28k quite easily. You do not want the FD to be a DD or even a 'must have running' car at any time. FD owners will be the first to tell you. I love the car though and a few reliability mods go a long ways; don't let that discourage you, in another 5 years the FD will be a dead legend and your chance to own one may be gone.

 

Sahtt's post was dead on. I have a 600 bike and my s2000 reminds me alot of my bike. I autocross my car and you really do feel the road, I've owned a few other sporty cars in the passed and in all of them it feels like the car is the limit, in my S it's the road. A few hp/tq mods and you're set.

 

Thanks for the great information sahtt, that's just the kind of insight I was hoping to get. I gather that DD is daily driver, but what is FD?

As far as mods go, do any of these cars tend to respond particularly well or particularly poorly to modding versus the others? I think if I were buying on looks I'd probably go for the 350Z, but I haven't been convinced that it has the potential to be as quick of a car in a tight track or auto X situation as I would like. I have been very impressed with a modded Evo I've ridden in, but the looks and 4 doors turn me off. The fastest car I've ever been in, and a car I adore everything about was a heavily modified 3rd gen RX-7, but finding a good example and reliability scares keep me from going that route.

Really if I could find a car that had the performance and modability of an Evo in a better looking and 2 door package I'd have found exactly what I want.

Thanks again for any information anyone provides!

 

Buy the WRX.

 

FD is standard connotation for the 3rd gen RX-7. That car like my z32 turbo has amazing character that can't be quantified. The s2k has a bit of that as well. I don't feel the same from any of the other cars you have mentioned.

The s2k's n/a potential is limited on a realistic level from the factory. The stock 200/140tq at the wheels can be raised to about 230whp/155tq with the best bolt-ons. Adding 'gears' is also very beneficial. You are looking at 13.0 flat in the 1/4 power wise with these mods. That is not the s2k's strength nor is it supposed to be. It will cost you about a grand used, 2 grand new. By best I mean strictly power producing. The evo and sti just are not comparable, they are turbocharged and therefore immediately primed for adding power. Both car's intercooling and fuel systems peak at the limit of the stock turbine or before it. People who do not actually tamper with these cars themselves seem to think getting power from a turbo car is free or something. That is NOT the case.

The 'free' power is the first additonal gain from raising the stock turbine to it's limit of the fuel/intercooling system. On my 300zx, it went from 260whp/250wtq to 340whp/345wtq for 600.00 through a simple JWT Eprom, or more commonly called a 'chip', though that is technically inaccurate. The older RX-7's, 300zx's, and supras had much more 'free' potential then today's cars in which cost takes a greater part through reduced profit margins due to the market then in the early 90's when it was 'no holds barred'. That is why the 90's supercars will probably be very significant in history.

Once the stock turbo's power is maxxed through full bolt-ons [down pipe, test pipe, exhaust, intake, etc.], the fuel injectors $$$, turbo $$$, and intercooling system $$$ will ALL need to be replaced in order to continue to gain safe power. On the STI and evo, this mark is in the lower 300's to the wheels, generally speaking. After that it gets pricey and if you don't do it right you'll end up with a laggy system unsuited for autocross etc. The 4wd systems of these cars are also on their limits stock, the sti's being slightly better built.

Once again, in the 90's era the cars were severly overengineered, you've probably already heard that. For instance, both the 300zx, supra, and rx-7 can take well over 500hp on the stock transmission with abuse. This is 10 years after their build date, sometimes 15 years. The 300zx and supra can take over 800whp stock bottom ends, 600whp stock motor completely. These are both 3.0ltr engines, not something spectacular. The rear ends on all 3 supercars can also take nearly 600whp. The supra is the epitemy of this example, being able to run 10's on mostly stock parts.

This era has blurred today's uneducated about turbo cars. The power and reliability of the older generation cars are simply NOT available nearly as easily on today's. The attitude towards their creation is not in the same spirit. Don't get me wrong, the progress is still moving ahead. The traction control systems and 4wd systems are amazing and for a FACT improve many car's performance. The old 5spd's, besides that of the later year supras which were 6spd, were bulky and impercise compared to today's 6spds. Part of having that close-ratio 6spd forces its durability to be less than the old, more simplistic 90's era transmissions.

THAT'S why supras cost 35k with 60k miles and still being 10 years old. Forget fast and the furious, that has little to nothing to do with it.

 

I forgot to mention the z33's performance potential. Handling wise there are the standard measures, honestly besides sway bars etc. the handling is already beyond what most people can do with a 3300-3400lbs FR setup with nearly 300/300 power figures.

The n/a mods on the Z aren't as popular as with the s2k because many are satisfied. You'll need to drive the car to see for yourself. There are intake plenums, intakes, exhausts, etc. that can get you above 300whp n/a without spending a fortune. I've driven one heavily modded n/a 350 and several FI ones. All the modifications feel unusually well suited for the chassis. There are several twin turbo kits, APS being my favorite one. Check out zcar.com and the 350z section. Search the name More_Power for detailed analysis of all the FI options for the z33. My sn there is zlover57, I have a few [over 6,000] tech posts there.