Very impressed with M Coupe
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Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.,Jul 18 2010, 08:57 PM
Well, since you want to be a prick about it...
First, get the sand out of your pussy. Seriously. I like you well enough and I think you're a smart guy and good contributor to the forum but you're always pissing in everyone's ear about how your understanding of something is more accurate.
Second, you're like that "one upper guy" from those old Axe game killer commercials. "You think that's guacamole? You've obviously never been to Ecuador."
You are arguing on the basis of your specific interpretation of what he was trying to say and you are taking the implications to the extreme limit of interpretation in order to draw conclusions about what he was supposedly trying to say so that you can argue the flaws in an argument that he may never have been trying to make in the first place. Most people don't feel the need to add disclaimers to everything they say to stave off people from Glenn Becking them like that.
I'm guessing that you think normal conversation should go more like this: "You're the prettiest girl at this party... Which is based solely on my opinion and is in no way substantiated with scientific date. Also that statement means that you are the prettiest with the exception of the girl who was here but left already therefore relinquishing here title of prettiest girl at this particular locations, and I also acknowledge that that other girl may not be the prettiest girl at her next location but it does seem likely. Additionally, I must warn you that my opinion is subject to change depending on varying lighting conditions, my blood alcohol content level, and other qualifying elements such as your general intelligence and taste in movies. Barring such unforeseeable circumstances as those, yes, you are the prettiest girl at the party. Void where prohibited."
Only, that too would fail as you yell from the other side of the room, "You haven't considered the objective data of her vaginal tightness coefficient. It is scientifically proven that the looser a girl's vag is, the less attractive she seems, so without such empirical evidence being factored in I don't know how you can make such as definitive statement."
You can too declare a winner in a contest based on subjective parameters. It is the better of the two BASED ON those subjective parameters. Absolutely you cannot draw an objective conclusion based on subjective info, but you're the only one who thinks that was what happened.
You acknowledge that "handling, driving pleasure, whatever" is subjective yet you assume that he is forming an objective opinion. Where are you getting that from? He used subjective info to form a subjective opinion and you interpreted it as an objective declaration and are attacking him on that basis.
If a guy says that blue is a better color than red he is clearly not declaring any type of factual statement. He is only stating his opinion and that opinion may not apply to anyone else. It's well accepted that if someone shares an opinion like that they it is not supposed to be considered true for everyone, just the person who said it.
So I ask again, if you understand that handling is subjective then why would you assume he is in any way talking about faster lap times. It seems implied that he is saying, "In my OPINION, I believe that x car suits my driving style better," since that's what the fvkk the word "handling" means, even by your estimation.
Do you not follow me here?
I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever that people can't feel marginal performance differences. I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever that even professional drivers can feel like they are going slower only to be proven wrong by the stopwatch. I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever that in order to form an objective opinion that you need to base it on facts and data. I'm merely stating that you are the only one who seems to think that someone sharing their subjective opinion somehow equals an objective declaration.
Again, I think you're an OK guy and I don't think that you are trying to be a jerk, but it is really starting to come off that way.
First, get the sand out of your pussy. Seriously. I like you well enough and I think you're a smart guy and good contributor to the forum but you're always pissing in everyone's ear about how your understanding of something is more accurate.
Second, you're like that "one upper guy" from those old Axe game killer commercials. "You think that's guacamole? You've obviously never been to Ecuador."
You are arguing on the basis of your specific interpretation of what he was trying to say and you are taking the implications to the extreme limit of interpretation in order to draw conclusions about what he was supposedly trying to say so that you can argue the flaws in an argument that he may never have been trying to make in the first place. Most people don't feel the need to add disclaimers to everything they say to stave off people from Glenn Becking them like that.
I'm guessing that you think normal conversation should go more like this: "You're the prettiest girl at this party... Which is based solely on my opinion and is in no way substantiated with scientific date. Also that statement means that you are the prettiest with the exception of the girl who was here but left already therefore relinquishing here title of prettiest girl at this particular locations, and I also acknowledge that that other girl may not be the prettiest girl at her next location but it does seem likely. Additionally, I must warn you that my opinion is subject to change depending on varying lighting conditions, my blood alcohol content level, and other qualifying elements such as your general intelligence and taste in movies. Barring such unforeseeable circumstances as those, yes, you are the prettiest girl at the party. Void where prohibited."
Only, that too would fail as you yell from the other side of the room, "You haven't considered the objective data of her vaginal tightness coefficient. It is scientifically proven that the looser a girl's vag is, the less attractive she seems, so without such empirical evidence being factored in I don't know how you can make such as definitive statement."
You can too declare a winner in a contest based on subjective parameters. It is the better of the two BASED ON those subjective parameters. Absolutely you cannot draw an objective conclusion based on subjective info, but you're the only one who thinks that was what happened.
You acknowledge that "handling, driving pleasure, whatever" is subjective yet you assume that he is forming an objective opinion. Where are you getting that from? He used subjective info to form a subjective opinion and you interpreted it as an objective declaration and are attacking him on that basis.
If a guy says that blue is a better color than red he is clearly not declaring any type of factual statement. He is only stating his opinion and that opinion may not apply to anyone else. It's well accepted that if someone shares an opinion like that they it is not supposed to be considered true for everyone, just the person who said it.
So I ask again, if you understand that handling is subjective then why would you assume he is in any way talking about faster lap times. It seems implied that he is saying, "In my OPINION, I believe that x car suits my driving style better," since that's what the fvkk the word "handling" means, even by your estimation.
Do you not follow me here?
I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever that people can't feel marginal performance differences. I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever that even professional drivers can feel like they are going slower only to be proven wrong by the stopwatch. I'm not disagreeing with you whatsoever that in order to form an objective opinion that you need to base it on facts and data. I'm merely stating that you are the only one who seems to think that someone sharing their subjective opinion somehow equals an objective declaration.
Again, I think you're an OK guy and I don't think that you are trying to be a jerk, but it is really starting to come off that way.
The post I took issue with was his comment that the Porsche "flat out handles better." This implies that in regards to handling it is the better car. The only way one car can be "better" than another is if it outdoes the other in every situation. Thus, subjective car feel can't enter into the equation because what's best is going to change from person to person.
We eventually both agreed that he was evaluating the car subjectively. That being the case, phrases like "flat out" and "superior" just don't apply. You can talk about how something is for you, but you can't make blanket statements like one is "flat out better."
I think what confused people about my first post is I demanded objective data and people thought I wanted to argue numbers. That wasn't the case, I was simply trying to show that because he had no objective data, he shouldn't be talking about the cars like that.
P.S. I got annoyed because I felt like all of this was clear from my previous comments. If it still felt unclear after reading the whole thread, I apologize.
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From: Montreal
As a lawyer who tries to come to these forums to avoid pointless arguments, I beg you all to please drop it.
Some people just like to argue for the fun of it.
I never mentioned lap times. I simply stated what my experience was with owning both cars in the same year.
Some people just like to argue for the fun of it.
I never mentioned lap times. I simply stated what my experience was with owning both cars in the same year.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,367
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From: SoCal
Originally Posted by Jacques79,Jul 18 2010, 08:59 PM
As a lawyer who tries to come to these forums to avoid pointless arguments, I beg you all to please drop it.
Some people just like to argue for the fun of it.
I never mentioned lap times. I simply stated what my experience was with owning both cars in the same year.
Some people just like to argue for the fun of it.
I never mentioned lap times. I simply stated what my experience was with owning both cars in the same year.
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Originally Posted by Jacques79,Jul 19 2010, 12:59 AM
As a lawyer who tries to come to these forums to avoid pointless arguments, I beg you all to please drop it.
Some people just like to argue for the fun of it.
I never mentioned lap times. I simply stated what my experience was with owning both cars in the same year.
Some people just like to argue for the fun of it.
I never mentioned lap times. I simply stated what my experience was with owning both cars in the same year.
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The only problem with a former Z4M-roadster owner posting his opinions in a thread regarding the Z4M-coupe is that, well, despite basically being 95% the same car, the driving dynamics are very different. The M-coupe's added body stiffness (more than twice), different steering ratio, and the slightly different damper settings separates the coupe from the roadster that it seems like driving a much hardcore version of the Z4M.
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From: Montreal
Originally Posted by Z4EC,Jul 21 2010, 01:28 PM
The only problem with a former Z4M-roadster owner posting his opinions in a thread regarding the Z4M-coupe is that, well, despite basically being 95% the same car, the driving dynamics are very different. The M-coupe's added body stiffness (more than twice), different steering ratio, and the slightly different damper settings separates the coupe from the roadster that it seems like driving a much hardcore version of the Z4M.
If you want to compare coupe with coupe, the Z4MC should be compared to the Cayman S. But even then, the difference between the Boxster and Cayman is minimal.
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