Chevy or Ford - which brand the winner?
02-14-2006, 05:54 AM
#1
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Chevy or Ford - which brand the winner?
While GM and Ford fight over who has the right to advertise who outsold the other last year, the market share slips away from both of them.
How nearsighted can they be?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/1413671.cms
How nearsighted can they be?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/1413671.cms
02-14-2006, 06:04 AM
#2
I don't think there is any issue with their vision.. this is a simple advertising claim that has value in the marketplace. Both companies have made moves to address slipping market share and regardless of the effectiveness, this has nothing to do with that.
I for one am tired of all the posts that take unwarranted swipes at the domestic companies. We really don't need anymore slanted sound bites on the board.. this should be about cars, not your campaign against one company or another.
I for one am tired of all the posts that take unwarranted swipes at the domestic companies. We really don't need anymore slanted sound bites on the board.. this should be about cars, not your campaign against one company or another.
02-14-2006, 06:12 AM
#3
I agree with cdelena. This is too played out. I've jumped in with both feet in the past defending the domestics in areas they should be defended, but this is getting old.
As an aside, I got a Buick LaCrosse CXS with 15 miles on it! as a rental car I picked up yesterday. Sticker is $29k or so, but with discounts and incentives, it's low 20's. With the DOHC 3.6L VVT, heated leather seats, VERY quiet interior and ride, it's a damn, damn nice car for the money. It even has a more sporty suspension in the CXS trim tied to the 3.6L motor.
What can you get from the foreign makes for low 20's at a high trim level? 4 cylinder Accord EX? 4 cyinder Camry XLE? Maybe a V6 Altima?
As much as it pains me to say it, I'd actually buy a Buick before the above cars. Now I'm not too fond of the front end styling of the LaCrosse, but as this is a hypothetical argument, it doesn't really matter.
As an aside, I got a Buick LaCrosse CXS with 15 miles on it! as a rental car I picked up yesterday. Sticker is $29k or so, but with discounts and incentives, it's low 20's. With the DOHC 3.6L VVT, heated leather seats, VERY quiet interior and ride, it's a damn, damn nice car for the money. It even has a more sporty suspension in the CXS trim tied to the 3.6L motor.
What can you get from the foreign makes for low 20's at a high trim level? 4 cylinder Accord EX? 4 cyinder Camry XLE? Maybe a V6 Altima?
As much as it pains me to say it, I'd actually buy a Buick before the above cars. Now I'm not too fond of the front end styling of the LaCrosse, but as this is a hypothetical argument, it doesn't really matter.
02-14-2006, 06:46 AM
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The problem is, GM can't sell cars at a profit! Even discounting their special charges. That Buick is supposed to compete with cars like the Lexus ES300 and Toyota Avalon, but the only way they can sell it is to discount it nearly $10 GRAND! We all know GM loses money when they use rebates and big discounts, but the only way they can move cars like that Buick (or, what the market thinks the Buick is worth) is to slash the price by 1/3.
Maybe they need to sell cars cheaply for a while, until people think they are great and worth more, but can GM survive long enough to make that an effective strategy? Until they can sell cars that are competitive price and productwise against the vehicles they are SUPPOSED to compete with, and not ones that are a class or two down, GM will be hurting.
This is not to slam GM at all, I have heard from multiple sources that the new Buicks (among others) are really great cars. But again, the Buick is not supposed to compete, pricewise, against the Accord. They are supposed to beat the Lexus's and Acura's, and maybe undercut them a few grand. But while those cars may or may not have a product advangtage, they absolutely have an IMAGE advantage, and once you get to the $30k level, you leave the straight, practical product comparisons, and image becomes the driving force. Buick just can't compete there.
Maybe they need to sell cars cheaply for a while, until people think they are great and worth more, but can GM survive long enough to make that an effective strategy? Until they can sell cars that are competitive price and productwise against the vehicles they are SUPPOSED to compete with, and not ones that are a class or two down, GM will be hurting.
This is not to slam GM at all, I have heard from multiple sources that the new Buicks (among others) are really great cars. But again, the Buick is not supposed to compete, pricewise, against the Accord. They are supposed to beat the Lexus's and Acura's, and maybe undercut them a few grand. But while those cars may or may not have a product advangtage, they absolutely have an IMAGE advantage, and once you get to the $30k level, you leave the straight, practical product comparisons, and image becomes the driving force. Buick just can't compete there.
02-14-2006, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cdelena,Feb 14 2006, 07:04 AM
I don't think there is any issue with their vision.. this is a simple advertising claim that has value in the marketplace. Both companies have made moves to address slipping market share and regardless of the effectiveness, this has nothing to do with that.
I for one am tired of all the posts that take unwarranted swipes at the domestic companies. We really don't need anymore slanted sound bites on the board.. this should be about cars, not your campaign against one company or another.
I for one am tired of all the posts that take unwarranted swipes at the domestic companies. We really don't need anymore slanted sound bites on the board.. this should be about cars, not your campaign against one company or another.
02-14-2006, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Stack,Feb 14 2006, 07:46 AM
The problem is, GM can't sell cars at a profit! Even discounting their special charges. That Buick is supposed to compete with cars like the Lexus ES300 and Toyota Avalon, but the only way they can sell it is to discount it nearly $10 GRAND! We all know GM loses money when they use rebates and big discounts, but the only way they can move cars like that Buick (or, what the market thinks the Buick is worth) is to slash the price by 1/3.
Maybe they need to sell cars cheaply for a while, until people think they are great and worth more, but can GM survive long enough to make that an effective strategy? Until they can sell cars that are competitive price and productwise against the vehicles they are SUPPOSED to compete with, and not ones that are a class or two down, GM will be hurting.
This is not to slam GM at all, I have heard from multiple sources that the new Buicks (among others) are really great cars. But again, the Buick is not supposed to compete, pricewise, against the Accord. They are supposed to beat the Lexus's and Acura's, and maybe undercut them a few grand. But while those cars may or may not have a product advangtage, they absolutely have an IMAGE advantage, and once you get to the $30k level, you leave the straight, practical product comparisons, and image becomes the driving force. Buick just can't compete there.
Maybe they need to sell cars cheaply for a while, until people think they are great and worth more, but can GM survive long enough to make that an effective strategy? Until they can sell cars that are competitive price and productwise against the vehicles they are SUPPOSED to compete with, and not ones that are a class or two down, GM will be hurting.
This is not to slam GM at all, I have heard from multiple sources that the new Buicks (among others) are really great cars. But again, the Buick is not supposed to compete, pricewise, against the Accord. They are supposed to beat the Lexus's and Acura's, and maybe undercut them a few grand. But while those cars may or may not have a product advangtage, they absolutely have an IMAGE advantage, and once you get to the $30k level, you leave the straight, practical product comparisons, and image becomes the driving force. Buick just can't compete there.
I'm glad you still have the right to express such opinions here! Some people have a problem with that, but can't seem to avoid reading threads like this.
02-14-2006, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Palmateer,Feb 14 2006, 10:35 AM
Well stated.
I'm glad you still have the right to express such opinions here! Some people have a problem with that, but can't seem to avoid reading threads like this.
I'm glad you still have the right to express such opinions here! Some people have a problem with that, but can't seem to avoid reading threads like this.
The opinions people object to is statements like "GM just sucks Hondas are the most reliable EVAR!!!111!!1"
If you can back up your thoughts with some tech, people here are relatively open to them.
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02-14-2006, 09:58 AM
#8
Why I don't Currently Drive A Ford or GM
By Vader1
GM and FORD: Would you like to buy one of our giant SUV's?
V1: "Are they fun to drive"
GM and Ford: "Um, no."
V1: "Do they hold their value and get good milage?"
GM and Ford "Uh.....no on both counts. How about a giant SUV with a ridiculous pick up bed look?"
V1: "Yeeesh. Hell no. Got anything smaller?"
GM and Ford: "How about a midsize SUV?"
V1: "Fun to drive and good milage and high resale?"
GM and Ford: "Ummmmmmm, no, no, and no. How about a small suv?"
V1: "Are they fun to drive, get good milage and have high resale?"
GM..... "not really, not ours, no way."
Ford....."not really, we do make one for about $30k, and no"
V1: " Do either of you make a fun to drive sedan, decent highway milage, V6 with a manual transmission? That is what I want, do you build one?"
GM: "of our 90 models, no, not with a manual, sorry. We got a caddy but not in that price range. You sure you don't want a giant sluggish gas guzzling hulk? We can give you a great deal!"
Ford: "We now make one, the Fusion"
V1: "Finally. One car. I will see how it compares to other offerings and think about it"
The End.
(yes this is a very self absorbed post)
By Vader1
GM and FORD: Would you like to buy one of our giant SUV's?
V1: "Are they fun to drive"
GM and Ford: "Um, no."
V1: "Do they hold their value and get good milage?"
GM and Ford "Uh.....no on both counts. How about a giant SUV with a ridiculous pick up bed look?"
V1: "Yeeesh. Hell no. Got anything smaller?"
GM and Ford: "How about a midsize SUV?"
V1: "Fun to drive and good milage and high resale?"
GM and Ford: "Ummmmmmm, no, no, and no. How about a small suv?"
V1: "Are they fun to drive, get good milage and have high resale?"
GM..... "not really, not ours, no way."
Ford....."not really, we do make one for about $30k, and no"
V1: " Do either of you make a fun to drive sedan, decent highway milage, V6 with a manual transmission? That is what I want, do you build one?"
GM: "of our 90 models, no, not with a manual, sorry. We got a caddy but not in that price range. You sure you don't want a giant sluggish gas guzzling hulk? We can give you a great deal!"
Ford: "We now make one, the Fusion"
V1: "Finally. One car. I will see how it compares to other offerings and think about it"
The End.
(yes this is a very self absorbed post)
02-14-2006, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by no_really,Feb 14 2006, 11:07 AM
you want a "fun-to-drive" SUV? uh, WTF?