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Douche-tastic dealer thread.

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Douche-tastic dealer thread.

 
Old 07-10-2019, 06:54 PM
  #11  
 
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In Ontario, when dealers post a price- that is the price (still have to add 13% tax)- they can't bait and switch and have to honour the advertised price. Its the law. It seems everywhere else its the Wild West.

That being said, our local Subaru dealer was really excellent to deal with for our used manual shift outback.

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Old 07-10-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mosesbotbol View Post
My buddy has been in the car business for 20+ years. Had his own dealerships, partners is others... He now works at Lexus dealership and is killing it. Very little selling; more just order taking. Once the first round of his leased customers comes up a high percent will lease another one...

He had a story about one dealership (he did not work at) that use to throw the customer's keys onto the roof and tell the customer "we can't find your keys" in order to keep them at the dealership until they made a deal. He also has a saying "You know how to tell a car salesperson is lying? Their lips are moving."

When I bought my Rapide, I thought I'd do the dealership a favor and give them first chance at financing. They told me the best they could do was 6% because it was exotic and blah, blah... I go to the local bank and get like 3.5% and update the dealership I got my own financing now. He says "if we can match that, will you finance through us?" I said "you can't get that rate, you already told me that..." Friggin crooks; probably got 2 points on that loan if I did it.
Had this happen when buying a Vette Z51. No other options. I was trading the AP2 in on it. I had a GM certificate, we had agreed on price of my S2k,and had the financing in place. When I arrive, they said they couldn’t honor the GM certificate, then lowered the trade in price on my car, then in the finance office the guy upped the % rate and also asked me if they could record the signing. I laughed at the finance mgr. I said, no, no, and no. We’ll use my GM Certificate at the previously agreed price on the new Vette, you’ll give me the value you already agreed to on my S2k, and you’ll give me the finance rate I was already approved for. If my original deal wasn’t met then I’m not interested and you can bring my car back untouched or unharmed or else. The guy literally says “Your car is already in back in prep getting ready to be sold”. I hadn’t signed a damn thing so I whip out the cell phone and called 911. “911 what is your emergency”. I said I’m down here at the Chevy dealership, where I have signed nothing and the dealer is refusing to give me my car back so they are committing a felony. You should have seen how fast this f’er stands up and gets moving “no no no, we’ll have your car back out here in 2 minutes for you.” Operator heard it and said “sir do you still need assistance?” I said to her that I would give these and I quote ass clowns 2 minutes to give me my property back or else I’m calling back. I have never seen people move so fast in my life. My car hadn’t even been touched.

Another time I had ordered a G35 coupe. Don’t know why and glad it didn’t happen. But anyway I wanted no sunroof. All of them on the lot were always sunroof and premium package. On that forum, all the premium package buyers were just yanking their audio systems out anyways as they were junk. I figured I didn’t want to spend the money twice. And I didn’t want a sunroof in that car as I’m tall. I had sat in someone’s with no sunroof and it was fine. Sunroof and my head would be scraping the headliner every time I drove it. I had put down a $500 or $1000 deposit, I forget which. After a few months, car arrives from Japan and it has a sunroof. Salesman called me and gave me the bad news and said it would be here end of week. He said “I’m off tomorrow but I’ll call you the following day with updated information.” He shouldn’t have told me that because that next day I went up there, and asked for my deposit back. Receptionist gets the manager I explain that is not the car I ordered and if they can’t order a car correctly I don’t need to do business with them. GM was cool, gave me my deposit back and said he understood, sorry, blah. Next day I went and bought the AP2 brand new. Had already signed on it and was driving it around. Phone rings, and you know how loud the S2k is, even with the top up. It’s the salesman and he is pissed. “You came and got your deposit, you screwed me!” I said nope, you ordered the car wrong, I didn’t want a sunroof and told you that several times. He was all upset and started asking what he could do to get me in and buy the car. I said nothing, I’m buying another car. He asked what car and I said a S2000. He kept pleading for me to come in as the car didn’t have the premium package therefore nobody would want it and I’m sticking him with a car he can’t sell. He knew he’d f’d Up and I’m sure the GM told him selling that car was on him and he’d be buying it if he didn’t sell it. I’ll never forget this, he said before you buy anything come in and let’s get this handled. I said too late, I’m driving my new car right now, signed on it hours ago. He went ape on the phone, I laughed and hung up. I mean that damn S2000 was loud and when I told him I was in my new car talking to him, you could hear a pin drop.

My STi, Subaru was offering an unwritten 5k off MSRP. It was all over the forums, nationwide. I was ready to buy so went to my local stealer. Sales manager wouldn’t budge a nickel off MSRP. I was first dealing with a salesman who then kicked me up to the sales manager. Sales manager in front of 3-4 salesman said he didn’t know where I was getting my information but it was “bulll S”. Said it in front of everyone up there and made a big show. I got pissed, left, and he smiled at me on the way out. I call 2 other local dealerships, and just over the phone they said they knew and agreed to that price. It was well under invoice. It was Nov 2008 when the markets were collapsing and this was a Subaru of America factory incentive to sell the cars, just not published. First other dealer didn’t have the color/wheel combo I wanted, the next one did, I bought the car over the phone. Pleasure of a deal, no bs. Quick paperwork signing and at the end in the finance office when they want to go over everything they tell me first 2 years maintenance on them, free oil changes, all that jazz and that I could get the work done there or another dealership, which just so happened to be where the sales manager prick worked, my local stealer. Same auto group owned both dealerships. So the next day I drive up there in the car, park it out front. I walk in, sales manager, sees me and comes right over. “Hey, back to get that STi I see” smirking at my ass. Same 3-4 salesman are there and had seen me park and walk in. So they turn and start paying attention. I laugh right in this clown’s face and tell him my new STI is sitting right there, I bought it last night. He says “nah” then finally turns his head and sees it where my finger is pointing and figures out to I wasn’t bs’ing him. I then say “I called 2 other dealerships and both offered me the deal I told you about over the phone so I bought it from your sister dealership because they had my color/wheel combo. You lost a sale you f’in sale and you were a jerk about the entire thing. You don’t know what in the hell you are doing when I know about factory SOA incentives that you don’t and you’re the sales manager, you are joke. The other dealerships obviously know as I didn’t even have to negotiate, gave me the price right over the phone. Now get the F out of my way as I want to meet the service department where I’ll be getting free oil changes for the next 2 years. That last sentence got laughter out of his underlings. 2 of his guys were gut busting laughing. He was not pleased.

I’ve had sales managers offer me jobs before during negotiation. I set my price before I talk or walk in and I don’t budge an inch. No car or literbike is worth me paying more. I always win, always. Patience, time, and being willing to walk every single time always win. They need to sell a vehicle, I don’t need to buy one. When I bought my RS they were going for 5-10k over sticker, ADM out the ass. No dealer in DFW would budge in inch. Well I find a published deal on autotrader for a brand new Frozen White RS for a very attractive deal, a little bit under invoice. I didn’t negotiate much, just $500 extra off. Salesman up in Whitesboro was cool and said they were a fleet truck dealership specializing in large diesels and they just want to move the car, and $500 wasn’t going to break a deal so he agreed on the phone. I said I needed to drive it first to confirm. Car had 7 miles on it, the same as everyone who ordered one. Drove it through some hard turns and knew instantly I wanted it. It was late by then, he hands me the keys when we get back to the dealership and says “Take it home, we’ll get the paperwork done tomorrow. I know you’re legit”. Such a nice guy. City people in Dallas many times are absolute a-holes. Get out into the country and people are as nice as can be. You can be hauling the mail and they’ll go over into the service road and wave you by. Definitely bought the car, did the paperwork the next day at my credit union and he even sent a guy an hour and a half with a spare part I wanted a week later. Next day I drove back to the last dealer I had visited trying to stick me for 5k adm. Pulled up, went inside and sat down “decided to get the RS after all heh heh”. It was like Subaru all over again. I said nope, bought one for under invoice. And this is the best part, he says “Not a chance in hell” at which point I pull out the dealer sheet with signatures, my copy. My credit union had full copies of everything. Salesman out in the country stuck to our deal that was made with a damn handshake, 1955 style. No games, no expensive doc fees, no nothing, no extended warranty pitch, nothing. Just a f’in handshake and both our words. So this f’er says “You drove that thing up here just to rub it in”. And I said yup, you lost a sale dude. Sad thing is I probably would have paid close to MSRP. Appreciate it. He didn’t say another word. I walked to service, grabbed a water and left.

It’s still a sleazy business. And they all hate the internet with a passion. I’ve had a guy tell me that the internet ruined car sales and any money they could really make. I replied, nope, it’s just a damn lot harder for you to f over little old ladies, and people in general. used sales are still to me a hell of a lot worse than new sales.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by QUIKAG View Post
My worst story still to this day was my girlfriend a few years out of college needed a ride to replace her aging Camry. She decides on a new '04 4Runner and I check around with a few different dealers. One is very responsive and good, Texas Toyota in Grapevine, TX. We agree on like $4k off the 4Runner and they said they would give a grand or two on her old, busted Camry over the phone. To speed up the process, my gf fills out a credit app and faxes it over with her salary, DOB, social, etc.

We show up after work and the guy I was dealing with wasn't available so they put me with their "best" salesman. We literally start over from scratch. He agrees to knock $500 off and offers lease deals with like $5k down and $800/month and other completely ridiculous crap. They are playing the "4 Square" game, marking on it, asking her to intial and sign one of the boxes (of course we don't) and I'm really starting to get pissed. I told the guy multiple times, we had a deal on email and we want them to honor it and to stop the BS.

They finally agree they can work something out with us and say they misplaced her credit app and ask her to fill out another one. As she's filling it out, the light turns on in my head that if they really lost it, it has a lot of very confidential info on it and that would be pretty bad. I jump up and ask for the manager and tell them they need to find the original credit app or I'm going to flip out. They start playing more games and said it's not lost, it's probably just misplaced, may even be locked in their safe or some crap. I literally start yelling that we want her Camry keys back and we are leaving. I was yelling and getting angry enough that 3-4 salesman were standing around me while their manager was trying to calm me down. They finally give us the Camry keys, we take the second credit app and put it her purse, and I tell them to F-off and we walk out and drive off in her old Camry.

F THAT PLACE. Texas Toyota in Grapevine sucks balls.

A few weeks later, she bought a new '04 Acura TSX from a good Acura dealer out in Fort Worth and it was an awesome car for her for years.
Do dealers still pull out the 4-square paperwork? I don’t recall being faced with this the last 5-6 times I went to buy a car.
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Old 07-11-2019, 05:32 AM
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3 out of 4 "squares" are meaningless. Only the price counts. Pay cash or have your financing arranged elsewhere and before hand. Yeah you can save some sales tax with a trade in and it's more convenient than selling your used car later. I've not had a trade-in in decades. New car price should be less than "invoice," the fictitious price the dealer pays for the car if it's new -- they pay thousands less and make a good profit selling at "invoice." Used?




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Old 07-11-2019, 06:56 AM
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My in-laws are Hispanic and don't speak English very well. That can lead to interesting times at dealerships, as the salesman often speak Spanish BUT the paperwork is virtually always in English.

Last year, they went to a Nissan dealership and bought a new Nissan Kicks. Sticker was about $18K and they had a Frontier to trade-in. My wife talked to them about their payments afterwards and it was 5 years at $350/month. I immediately told her that had to be wrong. Even without a trade-in, the car should've been far less than that with 0% financing and not other options or add-ons.

She got a few more details from her mom about what they'd agreed to pay (financing costs/duration, extended warranty (no), maintenance package (no), etc), then called the dealership to talk about the deal. The sales manager talked about how happy her parents were, blah, blah, but she started telling him that they didn't need a new car and they shouldn't have bought it and that the pricing on it was wrong. He didn't say much until she started talking about getting copies of the paperwork to see what was going on, as the payments didn't match the price at all.

He started hemming and hawing and then saying that they could probably make a better deal on the car, and that's when I knew they'd really screwed them over. No dealership renegotiates a deal on a car unless they did something wrong.

Since we don't live near my in-laws, their son and his wife went in to talk to the dealership. The dealership immediately knocked $7K off the agreed costs, but wouldn't say why. When they asked for the original paperwork, it showed a few things:

1. Full maintenance package for about $3K (not agreed on)
2. Financing at 6% interest for 6 years instead of 0% for 5 years (completely different than agreed)
3. Marked-up options that are standard on the vehicle (ie, standard features) - total con

Well, that got things fired up quickly, as her parents started saying that those were obviously not part of the deal, they'd been lied to, etc, etc. Since their salesman did speak Spanish, there was no misunderstanding on anyone's part - it was 100% a con job, from start to finish. Her parents had signed English contracts and didn't follow/understand the math. Just goes to show how easily people can be tricked if they don't know how to follow the numbers.

By the time it was all said and done, they knocked $10K off the actual transaction cost.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:28 AM
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Wow. Don't even know what to say to that.
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:38 AM
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So the dealer just happened to call me a couple minutes ago. They sent some poor kid to call me back instead of the original guy I was dealing with so I assume he was some kind of sales manager.

I told this kid that I was asked to send some photos and documentation for a trade appraisal which I did and never heard back. The only thing I did hear was that they were happy for my interest and then quiickly raised the advertised price. I thought it was unprofessional and no longer had any interest. He said, "Um, well is there any way we could still sell you the car?" I said, "Are you for real?" I feel kinda bad about being snotty to the poor kid, but not really.

One of the biggest frustrations is that most dealers will hound you about buying the car, when you need some little bit of leg work like what is my trade appraisal, or email me the car fax, or answer a question like has this car been lemoned, they say the will get back to you and NOTHING happens. Then they call you back routinely to see if you want to plunk down fifty thousand dollars and won't lift a finger except to hassle you. I wonder sometimes if not getting back to you is part of the game, but at the dealer I worked at as a teen, I would tell you it was from just sheer laziness. Those guys would pounce on people when they drove up, but as soon as somebody left and they had a task to do, it did not get done. They went bad to smoking cigarettes and standing around with their thumbs up their butts. It is like it attracts people who tried to fraudulently get on disability but were rejected so they go sell cars instead because that is as close to doing nothing as not working at all.

While I have some nitpicks about my BMW and am not in love with the idea of getting another one (maybe a used M240) and like but not love a Golf R I might buy one of either because I had such a great experience with the sales guy. He was honest, he offered me a good deal right up front, no tricks, was responsive and such a decent professional guy. After returning from a lovely European delivery trip, I sent him a thank you card with $100 in it. I have been down to that dealer a few times and have never pulled the trigger but he is always the same with me and is the sales manager now. He is offering me a few grand off of a Golf R which is fairly tough to find and I am tempted to buy it just to reward good behavior.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by vader1 View Post
So the dealer just happened to call me a couple minutes ago. They sent some poor kid to call me back instead of the original guy I was dealing with so I assume he was some kind of sales manager.

I told this kid that I was asked to send some photos and documentation for a trade appraisal which I did and never heard back. The only thing I did hear was that they were happy for my interest and then quiickly raised the advertised price. I thought it was unprofessional and no longer had any interest. He said, "Um, well is there any way we could still sell you the car?" I said, "Are you for real?" I feel kinda bad about being snotty to the poor kid, but not really.

One of the biggest frustrations is that most dealers will hound you about buying the car, when you need some little bit of leg work like what is my trade appraisal, or email me the car fax, or answer a question like has this car been lemoned, they say the will get back to you and NOTHING happens. Then they call you back routinely to see if you want to plunk down fifty thousand dollars and won't lift a finger except to hassle you. I wonder sometimes if not getting back to you is part of the game, but at the dealer I worked at as a teen, I would tell you it was from just sheer laziness. Those guys would pounce on people when they drove up, but as soon as somebody left and they had a task to do, it did not get done. They went bad to smoking cigarettes and standing around with their thumbs up their butts. It is like it attracts people who tried to fraudulently get on disability but were rejected so they go sell cars instead because that is as close to doing nothing as not working at all.

While I have some nitpicks about my BMW and am not in love with the idea of getting another one (maybe a used M240) and like but not love a Golf R I might buy one of either because I had such a great experience with the sales guy. He was honest, he offered me a good deal right up front, no tricks, was responsive and such a decent professional guy. After returning from a lovely European delivery trip, I sent him a thank you card with $100 in it. I have been down to that dealer a few times and have never pulled the trigger but he is always the same with me and is the sales manager now. He is offering me a few grand off of a Golf R which is fairly tough to find and I am tempted to buy it just to reward good behavior.
Agree on all. Buy the Golf R. It's a great car, especially if it's going to be your commuter. It really is a great car. My only complaint with it is the slightly numb steering. I just drove a Stage 3 DCT and it was fast AF. Rolling on Ohlins and a bunch of mods. If you were buying it to be your track car I'd said no but DD, oh yeah. Interior is just like an Audi and a killer stock stereo system. Drive modes, suspension modes it's trick. Motor is iron lump and highly capable in the aftermarket because the motor is so strong, lots of headroom. And here and elsewhere they don't deal on them. Them giving you a couple K off is liking getting 5k or more on something else from another manu.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:34 PM
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Recently we just purchased a car for my mom, brand new ES. I did the usual email everyone, got the best price, locked in, etc. Salesguy was fine during this point.

Told my mom I'm getting the car now but I'll bring it over once it's done, but she was excited and insisted to come, I said I wanted her to have a good experience so advised against it but she insisted.

5 hours later we finally take the car home.

When we got there, the price was right, then they tried to play games with the interest rate. They wasted so much time I was able to apply for a loan on my phone and got the approval done with a low rate. So then they come back and have the itemized contract, told them the rate was too high. They came back, rate was better but I noticed the numbers didn't add up. They corrected it and came back only now the doc fees were higher. They played dumb, I said hey I wrote it down, why dont you bring back that piece of paper, I'm sure it's in the trash can. So then they get that corrected but at this point its hours in and now I'm pissed, told them if they beat the rate by a percent we're walking. Waited and waited for finance manager to free up, get in her office, sure as shit didn't take off the rate. Told her what was going on, she used a "coupon" and got the rate I wanted.

End of the day I got the deal, got a good rate, mom was happy with the car. I was actually willing to pay a point or two more to put a few dollars in their pocket and was actually considering getting a service plan since itll be easier for my mom to just walk in and get it serviced rather me using my time, hell I may have even sprung for ceramic coating since this car is parked outside all the time. But none.

I did sales for a long time, I just rifled off thousands of dollars left off the table because they tried to squeeze another 500 out of me deceitfully. Glad we got the car and they made as little as possible on the car.

Always, always, always check the math on your own. Even when they give you the price and rate, 10 bucks a month hides alot.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:40 PM
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Oh yeah the four square thing. I respectfully tell them look, price and rate, tell me what you charge for doc fees, I have a calculator.

And then I find myself having to explain this 4 times. Smh.

Best experience though was at a Subaru dealer for my buddy's brz. Agreed on price, got pre approved. In and out in an hour only because their carwash had a log jam (they were really busy). Subaru in livermore, they even let me and a other buddy "test drive" an sti while we waited.
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