Car and Bike Talk Discussions and comparisons of cars and motorcycles of all makes and models.

Lexus GX 460 pulled from market; Safety concerns

Thread Tools
 
Old 04-13-2010, 06:38 PM
  #1  

Thread Starter
 
Bboy AJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NYSE
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Lexus GX 460 pulled from market; Safety concerns

Surprised this wasn't posted here earlier because it's pretty big news. Maybe I'm missing it.

Toyota quickly suspended sales of its 2010 Lexus GX 460 sport utility vehicle on Tuesday after Consumer Reports magazine warned buyers that the model had a dangerous handling problem that could lead to a rollover and possibly “serious injury or death.”

Toyota’s Lexus division withdrew the car just hours after the warning was issued Tuesday.

“We are taking the situation with the GX 460 very seriously and are determined to identify and correct the issue Consumer Reports identified,” Mark S. Templin, the Lexus group vice president and general manager said in a statement.

Lexus stopped short of voluntarily recalling the vehicle, but said it would provide a loaner car until a remedy is available to any concerned customers.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a statement on Tuesday that it was in communication with Consumer Reports and Lexus. The agency’s files, as of Tuesday, showed no record of consumer complaints related to the 2010 Lexus GX 460.

A Lexus spokeswoman, Allison Takahashi, said the automaker was not aware of any “accidents or incidents related to this condition.”

A “don’t buy” warning is rare for Consumer Reports, but there was no doubt it was necessary, said David Champion, senior director of its auto test division. The litmus test was whether the testers would want their families in the vehicle. The answer was no, he said, so “I wouldn’t want anybody else in it.”

The handling problem arises if the driver of a Lexus GX 460 S.U.V. eases off the gas pedal while driving quickly through a sharp turn. That causes the rear end of the vehicle to slide toward the outside of the turn, a condition known as trailing throttle or lift-throttle oversteer.

On dozens of other S.U.V.’s tested by the magazine, the electronic stability control system of the vehicles detected and quickly stopped the slide. But the stability control did not stop the GX 460 until it was almost sideways, Mr. Champion said.

The government tests some vehicles for rollover risks, but the agency said Tuesday that it had not yet tested the Lexus GX 460. The agency said it believed that the electronic stability control should prevent the fishtail problem described. The agency urged drivers of the model “to use care and caution.”

The issue is yet another public relations problem for Toyota. In addition to complaints about unintended acceleration and Prius brakes, there have been questions over whether the automaker was prompt in reporting problems to safety investigators.

Most recently, the federal government said it was seeking a $16.4 million fine, accusing the automaker of not acting quickly enough. Toyota said that it was “considering a response.”

But this time, Toyota moved swiftly and without any prompting from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, federal safety officials said.

The agency did say it was “in the process of testing” the Lexus hoping to “better understand the results obtained” by Consumer Reports. The agency said it was working with the automaker and the magazine’s testers.

Lexus sold 4,787 GX S.U.V.’s in the first quarter of this year, Edmunds.com said. That represented 10 percent of Lexus sales and 1 percent of Toyota Motor Sales at the manufacturer level, Edmunds said. The GX 460 starts at around $52,800 with destination charges.

The last time Consumer Reports made a similar “don’t buy” warning was in 2001 for the 2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited.

Mr. Champion said that the problem came to light at the magazine’s test track in East Haddam, Conn., while looking for “any nasty habits that might catch a driver out.” He said, “We want a car to be benign.”

The particular test that concerned the magazine involves a turn that suddenly gets sharper. The driver enters at about 60 miles an hour and then, as if surprised, lifts off the gas. Ideally, the electronic stability control would stop a slide caused by that maneuver, allowing the vehicle to safely complete the turn.

“I think it is more a calibration issue of the electronic stability control,” Mr. Champion said.

Four of the magazine’s drivers tested the Lexus without being allowed to watch one another or to compare notes, Mr. Champion said. They met later and discovered each had a similar problem with the tail sliding too far.

Mr. Champion said such a problem could happen in everyday driving. For example, a driver heading quickly through a turn — like a highway off-ramp — who finds the turn is sharper than expected would naturally lift off the gas, he said.

In an earlier statement, Lexus complained that the magazine had not demonstrated the problem for its representatives. Mr. Champion said, however, that on the day the officials visited the track, there was a hard rain, which would have made a precise duplication impossible. But, he said, they had shown the Lexus officials a video of their tests.

Mr. Champion said electronic stability systems used on other Lexus and Toyota models have always worked quickly to stop slides, so the problem on the GX 460 was surprising. The new Toyota 4Runner, which uses the same basic architecture as the Lexus, was tested the same day and did not have the problem.

In 1996, Consumer Reports said the 1995-96 Isuzu Trooper and the mechanically similar 1996 Acura SLX could roll over during quick turns at low speeds. Isuzu sued, charging the publisher, Consumers Union, with product disparagement and defamation. But a jury in Federal District Court in Los Angeles decided that Consumer Reports had not defamed and disparaged Isuzu.

A involving the Suzuki Samurai S.U.V. dragged on for eight years before Suzuki and Consumers Union agreed in 2004 to settle a dispute over the magazine’s assessment of the vehicle’s rollover risks. The case reached the Supreme Court, which in 2003 refused Consumers Union’s appeal of a lower court ruling requiring the organization to stand trial in the product disparagement suit brought by Suzuki.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/14auto.html

The bad news for Toyota just won't stop. Negative press keeps accelerating and accelerating. Eh? Eh?
Old 04-13-2010, 06:47 PM
  #2  
Registered User
 
asiliat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I think one has to drive within the confines of the vehicle and road conditions. While I don't doubt that the results are accurate in that particular scenario, these things wouldn't happen if they drove like it's a tall truck, because that's what it is.
Old 04-13-2010, 06:47 PM
  #3  
Registered User
 
Saint_Spinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,456
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

good thing that model isn't too particularly popular. If it was the RX on the other hand....
Old 04-13-2010, 07:53 PM
  #4  
Community Organizer

 
Cubs2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 7,111
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Default

"The particular test that concerned the magazine involves a turn that suddenly gets sharper. The driver enters at about 60 miles an hour and then, as if surprised, lifts off the gas. Ideally, the electronic stability control would stop a slide caused by that maneuver, allowing the vehicle to safely complete the turn."

"Mr. Champion said such a problem could happen in everyday driving. For example, a driver heading quickly through a turn — like a highway off-ramp — who finds the turn is sharper than expected would naturally lift off the gas, he said."



so...lift throtte oversteer.....I'm calling foul on CR.
They enter a decreasing radius exit ramp, under throttle at 60 MPH and lifting mid turn, in a tall, overweight SUV? I would never expect an ESP to bail me out of that situation..it doesn't matter how good the ESP system is when you are that far beyond the envelope..

Did they perform this identical test with comparable SUVs?
Old 04-13-2010, 08:39 PM
  #5  
Registered User

 
Vik2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Behind You
Posts: 13,211
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Cubs2k,Apr 13 2010, 07:53 PM
"The particular test that concerned the magazine involves a turn that suddenly gets sharper. The driver enters at about 60 miles an hour and then, as if surprised, lifts off the gas. Ideally, the electronic stability control would stop a slide caused by that maneuver, allowing the vehicle to safely complete the turn."

"Mr. Champion said such a problem could happen in everyday driving. For example, a driver heading quickly through a turn — like a highway off-ramp — who finds the turn is sharper than expected would naturally lift off the gas, he said."



so...lift throtte oversteer.....I'm calling foul on CR.
They enter a decreasing radius exit ramp, under throttle at 60 MPH and lifting mid turn, in a tall, overweight SUV? I would never expect an ESP to bail me out of that situation..it doesn't matter how good the ESP system is when you are that far beyond the envelope..

Did they perform this identical test with comparable SUVs?
+1
Old 04-13-2010, 09:46 PM
  #6  
Registered User
 
herminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Orleans, LA.
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

yea, unless the esp is smart enough to keep on the throttle when you let off every car will lose it under those conditions.
Old 04-13-2010, 11:17 PM
  #7  
Registered User
 
NuncoStr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

CR is not even good for lining cages. This is just one more bulletin in a long list of CR fail.
Old 04-13-2010, 11:25 PM
  #8  
Registered User
 
Fanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Glendale
Posts: 2,962
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Unfortunately I (& probably everybody else on this board) have seen the soccer moms driving their super sized SUV's like Ferraris. Probably 90% of SUV drivers have no concept that they are driving high center of gravity vehicles, and just try to drive them like normal cars.
Old 04-13-2010, 11:48 PM
  #9  
kix
Registered User

 
kix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Irvine/Orange
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I saw the video and thought it handeld quite well. CR pulled off a real nice drift.
Old 04-13-2010, 11:54 PM
  #10  
Registered User

 
datdude1119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw754vHd9_Y [/media]


Quick Reply: Lexus GX 460 pulled from market; Safety concerns



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:20 AM.