Manual vs PDK
01-25-2017, 12:56 PM
#11
I'm with the 3-pedals camp for my toy/sports car.
My DD can be a full on torque converter slush box these days, and now that it is, I've been quite happy with that decision. I can drive to happy hour with the GF and "accidentally" drink a whole pitcher of IPA by myself and have her drive home afterwards. It also makes me appreciate the S2000 that much more. Also, now that I've slightly climbed the mid-level corporate ladder, I'm a slacks, shirt, and dress shoes work monkey and appreciate having an automatic vehicle when not in "driving attire."
As for my toy/sports car, I like having to work to be fast. I like the feeling of accomplishment and knowing that it took a little bit more skill and dedication on my part to achieve that level of driving prowess (or lack of).
My DD can be a full on torque converter slush box these days, and now that it is, I've been quite happy with that decision. I can drive to happy hour with the GF and "accidentally" drink a whole pitcher of IPA by myself and have her drive home afterwards. It also makes me appreciate the S2000 that much more. Also, now that I've slightly climbed the mid-level corporate ladder, I'm a slacks, shirt, and dress shoes work monkey and appreciate having an automatic vehicle when not in "driving attire."
As for my toy/sports car, I like having to work to be fast. I like the feeling of accomplishment and knowing that it took a little bit more skill and dedication on my part to achieve that level of driving prowess (or lack of).
Last edited by Bullwings; 01-25-2017 at 12:58 PM.
01-25-2017, 12:59 PM
#12
I could see my next daily being an automatic (well, I hope my next daily is electric...so that limits things).
But the AP1 will always be around & as a result, I'll always have at least one car with three pedals.
But the AP1 will always be around & as a result, I'll always have at least one car with three pedals.
01-25-2017, 01:06 PM
#13
My Cayman is a manual, on purpose. I have driven PDK, and also my Bimmer's 8spd is a very fast (but not quite PDK fast) transmission with paddles.
When I got my bimmer, I thought the auto would be fun enough with the paddles and I really appreciated it in stop and go traffic. It is pretty smooth shifting and quick and has plenty of gears.
That was three years ago. I feel myself fairly bored in the car even though it is very pleasant to drive. It just is not as engaging as a manual. I think about replacing it as a daily often and for a car with a manual.
I don't care that the PDK version of the Cayman I bought is quicker, it is less "fun" to me and that is what counts. Besides if I were to keep the car for 20 years (as I think I will) and it stumbles into being collectable, it would probably be more sought after as one of the few manuals sold and the last of the long since disappeared transmission.
I have in my head several scenarios for when I pay off the Cayman and re-arrange the stable. Most include getting a daily that is a manual be it GTi, Golf R, M2, 240i or whatever even though in every case the auto will now be faster. There is one scenario I get a daily that is auto and that is if I pick up a second Porsche, but then the bad weather/Home Depot third car would probably be a GTi hatch with a manual. In all cases, two out of the three cars I would own would be a stick. I am 47, and can't remember the last time I raced somebody so the performance gain does nothing for me.
Now I may start getting into the track situation on occasion. I am signing up for my track's school this summer and my first time out. A PDK is supposedly always in the right gear and would improve my lap times. But on the other hand, I am not going to go to the track to compete or beat people, only to enjoy the drive and improve my skills and "oneness" with the machine so I can say for sure until I try it, but I think even for the track I would still want the manual even if it were slower. I want to learn to heel and toe properly, and always be in the right gear. That is part of the fun instead of having PDK do it for me. My $.02.
When I got my bimmer, I thought the auto would be fun enough with the paddles and I really appreciated it in stop and go traffic. It is pretty smooth shifting and quick and has plenty of gears.
That was three years ago. I feel myself fairly bored in the car even though it is very pleasant to drive. It just is not as engaging as a manual. I think about replacing it as a daily often and for a car with a manual.
I don't care that the PDK version of the Cayman I bought is quicker, it is less "fun" to me and that is what counts. Besides if I were to keep the car for 20 years (as I think I will) and it stumbles into being collectable, it would probably be more sought after as one of the few manuals sold and the last of the long since disappeared transmission.
I have in my head several scenarios for when I pay off the Cayman and re-arrange the stable. Most include getting a daily that is a manual be it GTi, Golf R, M2, 240i or whatever even though in every case the auto will now be faster. There is one scenario I get a daily that is auto and that is if I pick up a second Porsche, but then the bad weather/Home Depot third car would probably be a GTi hatch with a manual. In all cases, two out of the three cars I would own would be a stick. I am 47, and can't remember the last time I raced somebody so the performance gain does nothing for me.
Now I may start getting into the track situation on occasion. I am signing up for my track's school this summer and my first time out. A PDK is supposedly always in the right gear and would improve my lap times. But on the other hand, I am not going to go to the track to compete or beat people, only to enjoy the drive and improve my skills and "oneness" with the machine so I can say for sure until I try it, but I think even for the track I would still want the manual even if it were slower. I want to learn to heel and toe properly, and always be in the right gear. That is part of the fun instead of having PDK do it for me. My $.02.
Every person I know that went the DCT/PDK/DSG route always comes back. Paddles will never be as engaging to drive as that third pedal and stick to me, whether DD, weekend vehicle, or track toy. People like QuickAG, that will always keep one in the stable to fulfill that urge/need/want, I understand that. I'm more talking about not having a manual in the stable. It won't be long and you'll be back. Been there and have the t-shirt. never again. As long as the manual is offered that's what I'd buy.
01-25-2017, 04:07 PM
#14
My Cayman is a manual, on purpose.
It just is not as engaging as a manual. I think about replacing it as a daily often and for a car with a manual.
I don't care that the PDK version of the Cayman I bought is quicker, it is less "fun" to me and that is what counts. Besides if I were to keep the car for 20 years (as I think I will) and it stumbles into being collectable, it would probably be more sought after as one of the few manuals sold and the last of the long since disappeared transmission.
That is part of the fun instead of having PDK do it for me. My $.02.
It just is not as engaging as a manual. I think about replacing it as a daily often and for a car with a manual.
I don't care that the PDK version of the Cayman I bought is quicker, it is less "fun" to me and that is what counts. Besides if I were to keep the car for 20 years (as I think I will) and it stumbles into being collectable, it would probably be more sought after as one of the few manuals sold and the last of the long since disappeared transmission.
That is part of the fun instead of having PDK do it for me. My $.02.
OP- be a man- buy a manual. but you know what? make your money, spend your money. i really don't care.
darcy
01-25-2017, 04:23 PM
#15
I have a Evo MR with the SST. It's nice when there's traffic, I feel lazy, or when I don't feel like driving and allow someone who doesn't know how to shift drive it. I never really got attached to the car I think in part because of the transmission. I enjoyed it for the first 6 months, but after than I was like blah! Although its much faster than I could ever shift, I don't feel as engaged as I do with my S2000.
Another thing about those PDK, DSG, SST is Clutch work, maintenance, replacement parts are more expensive than a regular ol manual.
Another thing about those PDK, DSG, SST is Clutch work, maintenance, replacement parts are more expensive than a regular ol manual.
01-26-2017, 05:19 AM
#16
01-27-2017, 04:52 AM
#17
Moderator
At the end of the day, if you're not having fun, why do it? Worst case, you try a PDK, and then know what you truly prefer after being an owner.
I have a friend with a 911 PDK. He wanted a manual, but couldn't find one, but he's still happy - its still a Porsche.
Me? I'd forego the 911 and get a Boxster/Cayman - I think its a better car.
I have a friend with a 911 PDK. He wanted a manual, but couldn't find one, but he's still happy - its still a Porsche.
Me? I'd forego the 911 and get a Boxster/Cayman - I think its a better car.
01-27-2017, 07:47 AM
#18
One of my bikes had a DCT option, as in manual or DCT. It wasn't even a contest brother!
Until I have medical issues or just too old, manual!
I highsided at the track almost ten years ago, broke my wrist. No other injuries. Just cooked a corner coming after the straight. Couldn't scrub speed fast enough, bam, superman. Scrubbed enough speed however to prevent worse things happening.
Had to have 2 pins fused to the bone (surgery) and they went from the bones, and hung out of the skin, with a cast over. Every time I moved the pins shook. Talk about pain, for months. All I had was a manual so I balanced the wheel with the cast arm, and shifted. First day or two days was a pain in the, but after no big deal, just didn't drive as much. Ortho surgeon said when cast comes off in 3 months you better rehab like a mofo or you'll lose flexibility. We're talking left, so clutch hand on the bikes. He also said most lose considerable flex because rehab is painful and they are pusses and can't handle the pain. That cast comes off and the twice a day exercises he recommended, I did them ten times a day, at least. It was quite painful, especially the first month. It was a bad break. I go in for checkup like 4 or 6 weeks after and he checks mobility/flexibility and he shits. He says "Way better than my other patients what have you been doing?" I explain that's my clutch hand, and working that clutch is more important to me than beating off. He laughed, and I pushed through it to get full flexibility back. It will never be 100% but it's 90% or more and doesn't effect me on the bikes, lifting weights (have to brace it), or really anything. I get reminded of it once or twice a month doing something, working in the yard, something, but it's mild, and due to the severity of the break, I couldn't ask for more. I was on my knees praying the entire rehab time believe me, and I was playing the Rocky theme in the house as I cussed like a sailor doing rehab. Screaming at the top of my lungs, that shit hurt, and I never went to a rehab clinic once. Did it myself. Rehab was in winter time so no racing was on so I kept watching my favorite Valentino races (see avatar) from previous seasons and playing that damn theme song from Rocky. Motivation: Manual motorcycle transmission.
Thought you'd like that. Oh I forgot the best part. How did I forget? The break was on a Saturday,. Monday see ortho, Tuesday afternoon surgery, under anesthesia. Wednesday AM I flew to CA for MotoGP. Wasn't going to miss the prototypes or Valentino due something silly like injury. Landed SFO. I'd go every year since 2000, WSBK then MotoGP. Always rented a hybrid car from Fox because of Cali fuel prices. The drive from SFO to Carmel was the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. Severe pain. The drive is a lot of up and downhill, 2 lane twisties the route I'd take. Had to pull over twice and 10 minutes from the house we rented every year, I was in tears. I had cold beer and Humboldt waiting on me as soon as I got there and boy did I medicate that entire week. I had a turn 3 paddock suite (VIP type deal), arrived Friday morning for FP1, and the suite greeter asks what happened. told her, next thing you know I'm getting golf cart rides the whole weekend. I milked it. I had umbrella girls coming up to me to all weekend hugging on me. And I got pics with Ingrid Capirossi each of the three days, even told Loris I was sorry, and he was lol with it
. He goes home with her not me. FF to Sunday night after the race, and an umbrella girl got me into the Redbull party for the riders. Next thing you know I'm banging back beers with Kevin Schwantz getting lit watching all the riders let loose. All cast up, one arm with a never ending pint in my hand. Even the taxi ride home was fun. Less than 24 hours after surgery I'm in first class on the plane. Life is an amazing thing. Enjoy it.
Until I have medical issues or just too old, manual!
I highsided at the track almost ten years ago, broke my wrist. No other injuries. Just cooked a corner coming after the straight. Couldn't scrub speed fast enough, bam, superman. Scrubbed enough speed however to prevent worse things happening.
Had to have 2 pins fused to the bone (surgery) and they went from the bones, and hung out of the skin, with a cast over. Every time I moved the pins shook. Talk about pain, for months. All I had was a manual so I balanced the wheel with the cast arm, and shifted. First day or two days was a pain in the, but after no big deal, just didn't drive as much. Ortho surgeon said when cast comes off in 3 months you better rehab like a mofo or you'll lose flexibility. We're talking left, so clutch hand on the bikes. He also said most lose considerable flex because rehab is painful and they are pusses and can't handle the pain. That cast comes off and the twice a day exercises he recommended, I did them ten times a day, at least. It was quite painful, especially the first month. It was a bad break. I go in for checkup like 4 or 6 weeks after and he checks mobility/flexibility and he shits. He says "Way better than my other patients what have you been doing?" I explain that's my clutch hand, and working that clutch is more important to me than beating off. He laughed, and I pushed through it to get full flexibility back. It will never be 100% but it's 90% or more and doesn't effect me on the bikes, lifting weights (have to brace it), or really anything. I get reminded of it once or twice a month doing something, working in the yard, something, but it's mild, and due to the severity of the break, I couldn't ask for more. I was on my knees praying the entire rehab time believe me, and I was playing the Rocky theme in the house as I cussed like a sailor doing rehab. Screaming at the top of my lungs, that shit hurt, and I never went to a rehab clinic once. Did it myself. Rehab was in winter time so no racing was on so I kept watching my favorite Valentino races (see avatar) from previous seasons and playing that damn theme song from Rocky. Motivation: Manual motorcycle transmission.
Thought you'd like that. Oh I forgot the best part. How did I forget? The break was on a Saturday,. Monday see ortho, Tuesday afternoon surgery, under anesthesia. Wednesday AM I flew to CA for MotoGP. Wasn't going to miss the prototypes or Valentino due something silly like injury. Landed SFO. I'd go every year since 2000, WSBK then MotoGP. Always rented a hybrid car from Fox because of Cali fuel prices. The drive from SFO to Carmel was the most painful thing I've ever done in my life. Severe pain. The drive is a lot of up and downhill, 2 lane twisties the route I'd take. Had to pull over twice and 10 minutes from the house we rented every year, I was in tears. I had cold beer and Humboldt waiting on me as soon as I got there and boy did I medicate that entire week. I had a turn 3 paddock suite (VIP type deal), arrived Friday morning for FP1, and the suite greeter asks what happened. told her, next thing you know I'm getting golf cart rides the whole weekend. I milked it. I had umbrella girls coming up to me to all weekend hugging on me. And I got pics with Ingrid Capirossi each of the three days, even told Loris I was sorry, and he was lol with it
. He goes home with her not me. FF to Sunday night after the race, and an umbrella girl got me into the Redbull party for the riders. Next thing you know I'm banging back beers with Kevin Schwantz getting lit watching all the riders let loose. All cast up, one arm with a never ending pint in my hand. Even the taxi ride home was fun. Less than 24 hours after surgery I'm in first class on the plane. Life is an amazing thing. Enjoy it.
Last edited by TommyDeVito; 01-27-2017 at 07:51 AM.
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WolfpackS2k (01-27-2017)
01-27-2017, 12:50 PM
#19
Moderator
Im with you Jeff. I hate to admit it, but driving a manual on track in real life, versus using a flappy paddle in the gaming world, I just find it easier and more efficient to have 2 pedals. Call me lazy, or call me unskilled, but I feel like I can really left foot brake WAY better in a DCT than with a traditional manual. For shear performance, PDK > MT
