vividracing.com

I've been kicking around the idea of picking up an old Mercedes diesel and converting to bio diesel. Just not sure if I could find a MINT vintage Benz with A/C and service records in my price range.

Either a W114/115:


Or a W123:

Slithr

Had a buddy that bought one, looked good going in, and it turned out to be a money pit. It may be the price of the car overall, but my memory is that Mercedes only charges about $1200 for the diesel option on the E series.

marthafokker

If you are worth $500/hr, then guying gas is not a problem at all. You could have sent an intern to fill up the tank for you.

TommyDeVito

The Prius C is more of a city hybrid and the regular Prius is better on the highway.

On the highway I get low to mid 50 MPG in my diesel. In the city mid to high 30's. I'm averaging low 40MPG thus far with mixed driving but the motor isn't broken in yet and I've been told (and read) that MPG will go up once it has some mileage on it. The thing with my diesel (I test drove all the hybrids) is it has an extra 100 ft lbs of torque at the crank. That is a massive power stat over hybrids. It means my diesel has excellent passing power. While not quick off the line, while rowing gears in 2-4th, it has good acceleration. You really notice the torque when hauling stuff, it has enough power to move some weight and doesn't get bogged down.

It also has a manual transmission option, something you won't find in an Insight or Prius. I can't stand slushboxes or CVT transmissions and thankfully VW had MT options so I got the 6 spd.

It also doesn't have to worry about expensive batteries, EVER.

It also can run on bio-diesel. This is something my friends and I are pondering right now (2 of my friends have Jetta TDI's). At some point in the future, perhaps when we hit $5 a gallon, we will jointly invest in the equipment and start making our own fuel and it's significantly cheaper than gasoline or diesel by a stretch.

The diesel engine easily outlasts gassers. On the TDI forum, there are plenty of folks at 500k miles and then some. The motors just seem to keep going like the energizer bunny.

Where I live, diesel is more expensive than 87 octane but $.10 cheaper a gallon than premium, which my last few cars took. (S2k, STi, RSX Type S, Civic Si) So coming from cars that required premium unleaded, I'm paying less per gallon. Another added benefit is less trips to the convenience store to get fuel, or Costco, where I used to go. Costco often had lines for gasoline, and either way, less time out of my week, albeit not huge amounts of time.

The main reason I picked it up over any Hybrid is driving dynamics. There was just no comparison in driving the TDI vs. the popular hybrids, absolutely none. While it's not a performance vehicle by any means it sure drives well and murders the popular hybrids in terms of handling.

http://www.insidelin...twagen-tdi.html

Now I could go find you a few more of these comparison tests from Motor Trend, Car and Driver, or Road and Track, etc that say pretty much the same thing.
It's baffling reading these types of threads about these type of vehicles. People will just go off a sheet of paper and driving dynamics gets absolutely discarded. Many think that these cars are a purely economical choice and feel, handling, etc, go out the window and it's simply about $ when we all know whether it be a TDI, or a S2000, there is much more about the car than what a stat sheet says. Driving dynamics hasn't even been discussed in this thread until now, which is pretty sad for an enthusiast forum. Why can't you discuss which one drives the best while discussing sippers?

The 2nd major reason I bought one, was the resale value. It's high. While doing my research I found used SportWagens going for not much less than new and they are hard to find in a manual transmission. They hold their value extremely well and is what led to my purchase. The higher fuel prices go, the better the resale value will be. Compared to my last car, higher fuel prices would mean more depreciation and it would be much harder to move.

I see no reason for hybrids, none. They are slower in passing, merging, etc, drive much poorer, don't have manual transmission options, won't last as long, are more complex with no added benefit, and don't hold their value as well. Slightly cheaper fuel, but less MPG in my real world testing. And they absolutely cannot run on alternative fuel whatsoever. Price is moot as a Prius with Nav vs. a TDI with the same options such as the Prius V vs. the SportWagen, well there is a negligible price difference.

Just wait until VW rolls out their Hybrid Diesel, you might have an argument then.

NFRs2000NYC

These calculations are not correct. You counted both cars at equal gas prices. In NJ, regular is about 3.50 and diesel is 4.25. Do the math again. Unfortunately, thats to this idiotic administration pushing hybrids instead of diesels, in this country, they don't make sense.....neither do hybrids.

Toreus

I see only one post above discussing the longevity of the diesel engine vs standard. Diesel life expectancy can be measured in millions of miles, not hundreds of thousands. This is a HUGE factor when considering a diesel.

Presto123

Much rather drive a diesel than a hybrid. Diesels are tried and true. Reliable, fuel efficient, and you also get gobs of torque.

MaxGeek

He didn't use the same price for Diesel and Gas. The price difference between diesel and gas will vary across the country. His calculations make diesel about 35 cents more expensive per gallon.

For example (not necessarily his numbers)
$4.25/42MPG = 10 cents per mile
$3.90/30MPG = 13 cents per mile

deepbluejh

He didn't use the same price for Diesel and Gas. The price difference between diesel and gas will vary across the country. His calculations make diesel about 35 cents more expensive per gallon.

For example (not necessarily his numbers)
$4.25/42MPG = 10 cents per mile
$3.90/30MPG = 13 cents per mile
[/quote]

That's correct. Those were almost the exact numbers I used. Where I live regular gas is about $3.90 and diesel is about $4.20. These are average numbers, and they will surely fluctuate over the life of the vehicle, but the overall price difference between the two fuels should be fairly constant unless the tax situation here in this country changes (don't hold your breath).

deepbluejh

I guess that goes along with resale value... as a diesel will surely fetch more money when it comes time to sell the car. If your numbers are even close to true, the rest of the car is going to fall apart before the diesel engine itself dies.