It seems they've seen sense and aimed the car at the rest of the hot supermini market, and have obviously destroyed the competition. This leaves the Megane 225 Cup/Trophy to chase the big boys (quite successfully I might add, shame about the looks).

I'm genuinely impressed with the rear diffuser (giving 40kg worth of rear downforce!), and the Brembo brakes.

But the thing weighs 30kg short of an S2000! It's a supermini FFS!

http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/roadcars/clio197/

 

It should be a good little car, i used to own the 182 it that was great fun, exactly the same bhp as the CTR and i'll hazard a guess and say its weighs less, especially considering Honda are changing the style of the CTR, it looks bulkier than the current model. I did have a CTR before my S2000 and did prefer it overall to the clio.

I think that a sub 200bhp is the limit with regards to FWD, as the the VXR and Focus ST have proven with regard to torque steer and handling.

 

The VXR in particular is a disaster and just refuses to turn in without being thrown into a corner. 200bhp should be the FWD limit but the manufacturers are now fighting for the BHP crown so it won't end there.

The current Civic Type R weighs 1270kg, just 40kg more than the new Clio! The new Civic is also rumoured to be far lighter (it's what a Type R is supposed to be after all) than the old one so it should still be top of the crop.

 

And the new Fiat is supposed to have around 250bhp throught the front wheels!

 

The new Clio looks like a Micra/Ka bastardchild tho!

 

Completely disagree - the Astra VXR has been set up in a certain way for a reason. They could have dialled much of the torque steer out with clever suspension geometry - but they haven't.

In my opinion, the way the VXR has been set up makes it interesting and exciting to drive and makes it a completely different proposition to the Golf GTi (which I found woefully boring, but competant).

Same applies to the much maligned power delivery - which I also enjoyed as it was different to what we are usually given in todays sanitised 'jack of all trades' hot hatches.

I really liked the VXR (despite any pre-conceived ideas about it 'just being a Vauxhall). Damn quick too...

Andy

 

What you've done is hailed it for being "different" because of its poor power delivery and lousy cornering abilities. I'd just call it "lazy", or maybe even "shit".

In order to get it round a corner at any kind of speed you actually have to dial in FAR TOO MUCH lock, wait for it to bounce and understeer its way to the apex, then apply the power to pull you out again. That's not cornering prowess, that's just overcoming a cars woeful chassis design.

Put up against a Megane Trophy despite being 15bhp up, I'd put money on the Megane wiping the floor with the VXR round a track. The French may not build very reliable or well built cars, but they do know how to make them go quickly around corners. Which Vauxhall never have. They've been doing the same thing with their "top of the range" models for 15 years (with the same engine) and still haven't got it right.

 

My 'old' fiat had 250bhp through the front wheels, Coupe 20 valve turbo from 1997 The only time the power was a problem was in the wet (we all know about that ) and simply being a hooligan. Overall it was perfectly useable. 10 years old they should have moved the goalposts...

 

Alfa's have been 200+ bhp FWD for an age now ..
The 164 I drove for a year was a hoot.
3.0 V6 and FWD, just so damn wrong and LOADS of torque steer ..

 

[QUOTE=Jonny20VT,May 9 2006, 01:06 PM] My 'old' fiat had 250bhp through the front wheels, Coupe 20 valve turbo from 1997