Inspired by last night's Top Gear, and the discussion on that thread, i thought it may have the legs to run on it's own, so here goes... As the thread title says, discuss Here's my thoughts.

I used to go to Silverstone every weekend way back when, and remember Ayrton Da Silva in Formula Ford 2000. he was really fast and super aggresive. Then he went on to F3 (now called Senna) and was pitted against Brundle. He won more races in F3 than anyone else, and his record stood for about 20 years IIRC. I saw him take Brundle out at Woodcote in a Euro F3 race once. He didn't even brake, just T-boned him, he wasn't as fast as Brundle that day.

His F1 career folowed a similar path, especially when he became one of a trio of "untouchables". I think his win at all costs mentality really didn't, and doesn't sit well with the British concience, we believe in winning fair, or not winning at all. This is the same reason we all regard Schumacher as a flawed genius.

For what it's worth, I thnk Senna, for all his flaws, was/is the greatest F1 driver ever. Given that he shared his time with two of the other greatest of all time, it's little wonder he didn't set records like Schumacher.

I attended a corporate do a few years ago, and the guest speaker was Frank Dick, the one time Team GB Olympic Coach and Senna's personal trainer. He said Senna's only ever competition was himself. If he was fstest in qualifying, he wouldn't just sit in the pits waiting to see if anyone could beat his lap (as Prost, Mansell, Piquet et al would do), he's go out and do it agian. Sounds common place now, but he was the first to do it.

 

Genius yes, sublime car control & great to watch.

Problem was, his charity work in Brazil aside, the bloke was a twat. A ruthless cheating twat. I never liked Prost but to do him like he did at the first corner was just cheating. Out & out cheating. He should have had the title stripped from him for that.

Best driver of all time?

J M Fangio

Watching the footage of that guy makes me do sex wee & at my age thats getting to be a problem. Fangio was a gent on the track as well as wonderful driver.

Senna, brilliant but the flaws dulled the gloss. A shame though.

 

Technically brilliant but very ruthless.

Depends if you want to judge him on his driving style (which was brilliant) or by his competitiveness to win at all costs and thus his attitude.

His attitude is commendable though, despite the obvious cheating, his passion and drive to win a championship has not really been repeated in recent years.

He certainly made F1 more interesting than now!

I think as an all out driver, he was the best ever, as an all round package, I think Haikonnen was better.

"Yes"

 

Its strange how all who raced around him still think he was the greatest.
If it were Bruno Senna and a few other Brazilian drivers saying it I would perhaps doubt their judgement but when you have Mika Hakinen, Schumacher, Mansell, Brundel and all the great drivers of his era saying the same you have to take notice.
I loved watching him, I particularly loved watching him when he would do everything he could to keep people behind him. Silverstone 1993 was hilarious as was Monaco 92.
I bet 90% of the current grid idolised Senna in their youth.

 

Ability to drive, fantastic.
Determination - present and clearly a huge factor in success
Sportsmanship - absent

It is a sport, and the "win at all costs including by willingly adversely affecting your peers" attitude does not have much place in a true sports person / hero IMHO

 

But it was Prost who drove into Senna in the climax to the '89 championship and won the title (after the move failed, but Senna was subsequently disqualified), thus "starting it". It's also an interesting note that we all forget that as it was Prost reacting to "that nasty man", but it was no less blatant (albeit a bit later in the race) than what Senna did, oh and ultimately it failed, just like Schumacker on Villeneuve seven years later.

At the time of the '90 race, the pre race talk was will Senna do to Prost as was done to him the previous year. He did, yet we all forget Prost on Senna, and remember Senna on Prost.

All top sportsmen are competetive to the point of win at all costs, most hide it better than Senna.

 

How would you describe stopping your car in mid race to help a driver trapped after a particulary nasty crash? I'd say he had sprtsmanship, just not if you looked like beating him.

 

It doesnt seem to have effected the people he raced against too much!
What did he do that was so wrong? He had Prost off in 1990, brake tested Mansell in Australia 91, left prost out to dry in Germany 1991ish and restricted a team mates ability to win in Lotus. Schumacher I would say did a fair bit more and was pretty blatant in some of his moves.
Mr After you Claude does not win in F1. In current F1 I think he would have been even better as the gaps are so small every oppurtunity needs to be taken and Hamilton is really the only competitor out there who has the same DNA.

 

Agreed & i put Prost, Schumacher, Alonso into the same bracket as Senna. All brilliant drivers but if you have to 'win' by cheating as each of the above have then you haven't won. Its as simple as that. I'm as competitive as the next bloke but LadyB sums it up for me. How can you celebrate a win when you know you didn't do it with pure talent alone.

 

At the time I didn't rate him as the best ever. I think Prost was just as fast as was Mansell and Piquet.

Prost was the faster of the two IMO.

I think his death has elevated his skills to mythical status. Donnigton and a few drives in the Lotus (Honda) aside, I think he was as good as his peers. Back markers in those days used to get out of his way and the performance advantage of the Honda engine was significant.

That said I cried when he died :RIP: